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Turtle Caudal Vertebrae?


Peat Burns

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Dear TFF members, I am seeking confirmation of the class and order of vertebrate to which these vertebrae belong.  This is a ventral view.  I am thinking turtle caudal vertebrae.

 

White River Group. Nebraska. Oligocene. Scale in cm/mm

 

20180329_213216.thumb.jpg.0a1c5e6b640590e68c4c2713b22484f3.jpg

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Does look reptilian to me, and the odds are there are testudine in that FM.

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16 hours ago, WhodamanHD said:

Does look reptilian to me, and the odds are there are testudine in that FM.

What do you mean by FM? 

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3 minutes ago, Malone said:

What do you mean by FM? 

Short for "formation" (geological formation):)

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definitely reptilian and turtles are the only reptile that got that big i the White River.  Ok, there is the alligator, but it is incredibly rare, and these are not croc verts.  

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16 hours ago, WhodamanHD said:

Does look reptilian to me, and the odds are there are testudine in that FM.

 

Just now, jpc said:

definitely reptilian and turtles are the only reptile that got that big i the White River.  Ok, there is the alligator, but it is incredibly rare, and these are not croc verts.  

Thank you both.  Very much appreciated!

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I am rethinking this... I can't tell how big these are, but there is also Glyptosaurus, a fairly large lizard.  These verts have nice ball and socket centra like lizards.  I am not sure if turtle verts are ball and sockets.  

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25 minutes ago, jpc said:

I am rethinking this... I can't tell how big these are, but there is also Glyptosaurus, a fairly large lizard.  These verts have nice ball and socket centra like lizards.  I am not sure if turtle verts are ball and sockets.  

Thank you.  I'll look into this.  I have some modern turtle vertebrae and Hesperotestudo vertebrae I can compare with.  What about Peltosaurus?  Is that also a possibility?

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Peltosaurus is pretty small...  I would say regular lizard size, if that means anything.  Glyptosaurus is bigger then a chuckwalla.  

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1 hour ago, jpc said:

Peltosaurus is pretty small...  I would say regular lizard size, if that means anything.  Glyptosaurus is bigger then a chuckwalla.  

I'll be very pleased if these turn out to be squamate.  :)

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@jpc Here is the fossil next to caudal vertebrae of Chelydra serpentina  (both in ventral view).  If I have my orientation correct on these, the fossil is opisthocoelous, but my understanding is that the centra in turtle vertebrae can vary from procoelous to opistocoelous between species and even depending on position in the spine within species.  

 

Unfortunately, I do not have any reference material for monitor and other lizard caudals.

 

20180331_211442.thumb.jpg.6337e3f800a25f5dab4d637a991e7cec.jpg

 

Here's another pic of turtle caudals (from base of tail)

 

20180331_213912.png.d18d80e3b2362f51357a13c4df4321e0.png

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your fossil looks a lot like your chelydra bones.  

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