RonG Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Good Evening All, I have a question regarding online fossil purchases and how to recognize fakes. Is it safe to assume relatively inexpensive vertebrate fossils (<$500) coming out of China are counterfeits? (See attached example minus identifying information to be in keeping with forum policies) I know extinct hyenas aren't as sexy as dinosaurs or direwolves, but that's like 1-2 orders of magnitude cheaper than most carnivore skulls I've seen while internet window shopping. I also was under the impression China did not allow the export of fossils, but I am admittedly not very well versed in the world of private fossil dealings. It's sort of an academic discussion I guess (somewhat literally and figuratively). I'm a veterinary student and have recently been obsessing over canine evolution because I'm a huge dweeb. Student loans what they are these days I don't think I'll be spending what little beer money I have on canid fossils (also, strictly speaking, hyenas aren't canid fossils anyway), but I'm curious what the community thinks about listings like this. Best, RonG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 j.1096-3642.1988.tb01528.x.pdf(about 0,6 MB) http://foreninger.uio.no/ngf/FOS/pdfs/F&S_30.pdf apologies if already in the miscellaneous libraries here editorial note: LW has gotten some criticism for his view on hyaenid systematics,but ain't that the way the cookie crumbles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonG Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 Oh no why are you doing this to me. Down the rabbit hole I go haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macrophyseter Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 1 hour ago, RonG said: Is it safe to assume relatively inexpensive vertebrate fossils coming out of China are counterfeits? It is true that much of the fossils that are coming out of China these days are fake, and this is due to a recent ban on exporting vertebrate fossils in China. However, as far as I know, hundreds of fossils have already been exported before the ban (and illegal smuggling still exists ), so there are still quite many real Chinese fossils still in circulation. It's always best to first check with some experts before deciding if you're going to get something from a country that has now banned exporting them. If you're a fossil nut from Palos Verdes, San Pedro, Redondo Beach, or Torrance, feel free to shoot me a PM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 @RonG Please remember that TFF does not allow the posting of dealer links or references to specific sellers. That info has been edited from your topic. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonG Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, JohnJ said: @RonG Please remember that TFF does not allow the posting of dealer links or references to specific sellers. That info has been edited from your topic. Apologies, I was unaware. In a hypothetical future situation, would screen shots with redacted information be ok or is that still too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonG Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 24 minutes ago, Macrophyseter said: It is true that much of the fossils that are coming out of China these days are fake, and this is due to a recent ban on exporting vertebrate fossils in China. However, as far as I know, hundreds of fossils have already been exported before the ban (and illegal smuggling still exists ), so there are still quite many real Chinese fossils still in circulation. It's always best to first check with some experts before deciding if you're going to get something from a country that has now banned exporting them. Interesting. You can still find tons of fossils for sale - shipping out of China - listed on ebay. Does this info basically mean that those are all either illegal or fakes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Redacted screen shots are fine...keep the focus on the particular fossils, not the seller or website. Thanks for your help. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macrophyseter Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 On 4/10/2018 at 1:28 AM, RonG said: Apologies, I was unaware. In a hypothetical future situation, would screen shots with redacted information be ok or is that still too much? Uploading screenshots of the pictures are totally fine, and a picture of the description would also be fine as long as it just talks about the description of the item in question. And based on what others say, I think its best to say "our favorite auction site" when describing you know, our favorite auction site we have come to know and love. If you're a fossil nut from Palos Verdes, San Pedro, Redondo Beach, or Torrance, feel free to shoot me a PM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Screenshots of any marketing verbiage should also be avoided, as that easily identifies a seller. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonG Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 Alright, requested edits have been made to the original post, thank you for your patience. Maybe I'll reframe my question slightly - can anyone point me in the direction of some materials on how to identify fake vertebrate fossils? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 RonG, ask seller for a better photo/s with more detail so that our experts can help you. You might have a good one; the details will help. A seller that refuses to provide better photos might be trying to hide something. Hopefully the country of "manufacture" is not China as the description on the website says. My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelhead9 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I saw this fossil listed at an auction site. It is certainly real. The side you have shown is quite good. The other side, not so much. Still Life Fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Looks very real and nice on the one side. Have not seen any of this type of material faked from China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelhead9 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Troodon said: Looks very real and nice on the one side. Have not seen any of this type of material faked from China. Never faked, but lots of heinous composites! Still Life Fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhen Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 I think the fossil is genuine, not fake or composite. These mammal fossils of more recent history are quite common in the famous Hezheng County of Gansu Province, China. Many skulls, bone fragments or teeth are found (look at the photos attached). As others said, it's either exported out of China before the ban or has been smuggled out recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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