Miocene Coprolite

[Calvert Cliff Dweller]

Hi Folks,

 

  I found this suspiciously looking piece of something yesterday. Anyway with all the knowledge on this board I will throw this piece of something out there for you all to identify. It is quite a large specimen about 5” + 3” and over a pound in weight. Also I should add I found this specimen on Brownies beach in Chesapeake Beach Maryland.

 

 Thanks Cliff Dweller 

[Calvert Cliff Dweller]

More pics

[Miocene_Mason]

Does have a spiral as you would expect from, say, a shark but the size and the material makes me doubt this is a coprolite. @GeschWhat, what do you think?

[Peat Burns]

Definitely looks like a job for @GeschWhat

 

[Calvert Cliff Dweller]

It is very large for a coprolite but I thought it may be from a large Land mammal or possibly a Whale.

[Tidgy's Dad]

Interestingly weathered quartzite, i think 

[GeschWhat]

The folds, texture and shape make me think coprolite. Does it feel gritty or smooth to the touch? I'm not seeing a spiral structure, so a fish with a spiral valve (sharks, rays, skates, etc.) can be ruled out. Can I see an end view? I don't usually like to attribute coprolites to a particular producer. However, this looks a lot like those generally attributed to crocodilians. Crocs have very acidic digestive systems so rarely have inclusions. IF it is fossil croc poo, you can estimate the length of the croc that made it by the diameter of the poo using the following formula: Croc's Length (cm) = [coprolite diameter (cm) - 1.10]/0.012 (see Crocodylian Scatology by Jesper Milan).

 

Roughly (based on your photos) approximating the diameter at 9.9 cm [(10.75 cm + 9 cm)/2]:

 

[9.9 cm - 1.10] = 8.8/0.012 = 733.33 cm = 288.7 in/12 = approx. a 24 ft beast

 

Does anyone know if Miocene crocs got that big in North America? I know they did in South America.

 

Many of the tan colored coprolites from the east coast will stick if you touch them to the tip of your tongue. 

 

 

[Auspex]

It bears a classic resemblance to what I have seen described as a crocodile coprolite:

 

One from the Calvert Formation was sectioned and polished, and determined to be made largely of bird feathers!

[Miocene_Mason]

1 hour ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Interestingly weathered quartzite, i think 

I’d be surprised to see that at the cliffs.

 

35 minutes ago, GeschWhat said:

Does anyone know if Miocene crocs got that big in North America? I know they did in South America.

Gavialosuchus could reach 30 I’ve been told.

[Tidgy's Dad]

1 minute ago, WhodamanHD said:

I’d be surprised to see that at the cliffs.

 

Gavialosuchus could reach 30 I’ve been told.

You know the place infinitely better than me, and i'll be more than happy to be wrong! 

[Miocene_Mason]

2 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

You know the place infinitely better than me, and i'll be more than happy to be wrong! 

I’m not sure that’s mathematically possible

The cliffs are mostly unconsolidated clays and sands with concretions and such strewn about, every now and then you’ll get a different type of rock brought through anthropogenic means so quartzite could technically be found at the cliffs. 

[Calvert Cliff Dweller]

Hi Geschwhat,

 

     Down here in Maryland we do occasionally find coprolites and they are especially prevalent at the inner harbor in Baltimore lol. But seriously this is my first possible coprolite and I must say after seeing some examples here on the forum it has helped me identify such specimens in the field. To answer your question the specimen feels a little course to the touch as very fine sand paper would feel. I suspected it could possibly be maybe Rhinoceros dung because I have found rhino material in the general area of the find. I appreciate yours and TFF family help in this specimens ID.

[Miocene_Mason]

4 minutes ago, Calvert Cliff Dweller said:

I have found rhino material in the general area of the find. I

Teleoceras I presume? Tag me if you ever post a picture of that, rare on the cliffs!

[Calvert Cliff Dweller]

I donated or should I say trade a Teleoceras molar to the Calvert Marine Museum last year it is on the front page of The December edition of the Ecphora news letter. Anyway the coprolite came out of the same slump pile as the molar.

[Calvert Cliff Dweller]

[Miocene_Mason]

That’s awesome! Nice tooth, and good on ya for donating it. You should post that in the partners in paleontology section.

[Calvert Cliff Dweller]

This is the Aphelops tooth I found last year and the coprolite specimen came from the same slump pile with in about 15 feet or so.

[Calvert Cliff Dweller]

I have been fortunate thru the years with my finds but have not spoke of it on this forum. I was basically the first to identify the Hemipristis Serra remains that the Gibson family uncovered 3 years ago in Chesapeake Beach and directed them to get in touch with CMM. But I feel my personal best find is a 24” Squalodon jaw and 5 associated teeth. Anyway right now my interest is trying to nail down this possible Coprolite specimen.

[GeschWhat]

From what I can see, I do think this is a coprolite. From the ends it looks like it could have a little bit of a spiral structure, but not the typical wound ribbon morphology usually associated with sharks, rays, etc. I think I still lean toward it being similar to a crocodilian. Since you are a patron of the CCM, you may want to take it there so Stephen Godfrey take a look at it. He could likely confirm.

1 hour ago, Auspex said:

It bears a classic resemblance to what I have seen described as a crocodile coprolite:

 

One from the Calvert Formation was sectioned and polished, and determined to be made largely of bird feathers!

Awe...it's "Precious" (the name of the coprolite in the photo). Do you know if there are photos of the one that was sectioned and polished with feathers? I would LOVE to see that!

[MarcoSr]

1 hour ago, Auspex said:

It bears a classic resemblance to what I have seen described as a crocodile coprolite:

 

One from the Calvert Formation was sectioned and polished, and determined to be made largely of bird feathers!

 

Chas

 

Cool picture!  Even though crocs have extremely strong stomach acid which dissolves almost everything that they eat, feathers and hair survive the acid and are found as inclusions in croc coprolites.

 

Marco Sr.

[Miocene_Mason]

1 hour ago, Calvert Cliff Dweller said:

Anyway right now my interest is trying to nail down this possible Coprolite specimen.

Sorry, I get sidetracked easily. 

[Calvert Cliff Dweller]

It’s all good young man

[goatinformationist]

Time for the tile saw.  Let's attempt another round of answers when we section the poo.  Sincerely.

[GeschWhat]

13 hours ago, goatinformationist said:

Time for the tile saw.  Let's attempt another round of answers when we section the poo.  Sincerely.

I wouldn't cut this one...

[Auspex]

On 4/15/2018 at 8:36 PM, GeschWhat said:

Do you know if there are photos of the one that was sectioned and polished with feathers? I would LOVE to see that!

Alas, as far as I can find, none exist.

It was published in "Wetmore, 1943". A challenge was later made, doubting that it was a crocodile coprolite, based on the idea that crocs regurgitate indigestibles like feathers.

I'll go with Wetmore's analysys, as he had the benefit of vast field experience behind him when he wrote it up.