njfossilhunter Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I collected this tooth from a coastal Virgina site a few years ago. I am some what sure its a whale tooth of some kind but not sure of type of whale. If anyone here has any idea I would love to hear what you may think it is. The surrounding Miocene formation that it may have come from was either choptank or calvert. Anyone???????? TonyThe Brooks Are Like A Box Of Chocolates,,,, You Never Know What You'll Find. I Told You I Don't Have Alzheimer's.....I Have Sometimers. Some Times I Remember And Some Times I Forget.... I Mostly Forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfossilhunter Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Here are a few more picture's. TonyThe Brooks Are Like A Box Of Chocolates,,,, You Never Know What You'll Find. I Told You I Don't Have Alzheimer's.....I Have Sometimers. Some Times I Remember And Some Times I Forget.... I Mostly Forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wow Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Looks more like croc to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 pretty cool and great condition. how big is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 It's a beautifully preserved tooth; can you give us an idea of the size? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfossilhunter Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Sorry about that. Its 2 1/4 inch high and 7/8 inch wide at the base. TonyThe Brooks Are Like A Box Of Chocolates,,,, You Never Know What You'll Find. I Told You I Don't Have Alzheimer's.....I Have Sometimers. Some Times I Remember And Some Times I Forget.... I Mostly Forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smilodon Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I collected this tooth from a coastal Virgina site a few years ago. I am some what sure its a whale tooth of some kind but not sure of type of whale. If anyone here has any idea I would love to hear what you may think it is. The surrounding Miocene formation that it may have come from was either choptank or calvert. Anyone???????? Ok, I was going to hold off on this until the Lee Creek Shark Tooth Police showed up, but I have two questions for you since the photos, as good as they are, are just not definitive enough. 1. Is it at all possible that you may have placed the locality description with the wrong tooth? Because I have serious doubts that it is from a Virginia Coastal Plain site. Would you just check again to be sure? You won't believe the kind and locality of the tooth I have that's a dead ringer for it. But once again, the photos are just not definitive enough 2. Now this is hard to describe, so bear with me. Take your thumb and index finger and separate them, then twist them around the enamel portion of the tooth. Do you feel any vertical ridges besides the less obvious multiple vertical striations. This is going to be like CSI except over the interwebz instead of in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 where's bobby when you need him? <yelling off monitor> BOBBBBBYYYYY!!! njfh - pm "boesse". hit the <enter> key hard because he's on the west coast, probably. but he'll either know exactly what it is, or maybe even show you the rest of the jaw with the missing socket. he's scary smart. you can feel a vacuum sucking the intelligence out of the rest of the room when he walks it. s'mazing. when i grow up, i want to be an expert on something cool and esoteric. you know, like tell people in bars, "well yes, i, um, i developed the everlasting gobstopper recycling machine." that would be cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfossilhunter Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Smilodon OK I did what you asked me and yes there is a faint ridge on opposite side of each other, one side more evident then the other. You can't really see it but you can feel it. and what is up with the lee creek shark tooth police??????? And yes I did find this tooth in virgina. So what do you think it is?????? TonyThe Brooks Are Like A Box Of Chocolates,,,, You Never Know What You'll Find. I Told You I Don't Have Alzheimer's.....I Have Sometimers. Some Times I Remember And Some Times I Forget.... I Mostly Forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfossilhunter Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Thanks tracer I will do that if he does'nt reply to this post by tonight.......Thank You for your help.. TonyThe Brooks Are Like A Box Of Chocolates,,,, You Never Know What You'll Find. I Told You I Don't Have Alzheimer's.....I Have Sometimers. Some Times I Remember And Some Times I Forget.... I Mostly Forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 SmilodonOK I did what you asked me and yes there is a faint ridge on opposite side of each other, one side more evident then the other. You can't really see it but you can feel it.... Two "cutting edges" eh? Take it away, Smilodon! <wait for it, wait for it...> "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorman Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Looks crocy to me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Looks crocy to me too. It certainly appears to be large reptile tooth. The "ridges" are called carinae (sing. carina). http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smilodon Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Looks crocy to me too. I'm think I'm just going to be cool and let someone who knows more about these things than I do go on from here. Someone please let me know when such a person shows up. Inside joke, inside joke Lee Creek Shark Tooth Police??? Hey, I have to be a good boy here. PM me, but my reply may set off the fire alarm in your next door neighbor's place. OK if you are certain that was the correct locality info, was it a land site that you might have had to dig a bit or a beachy/watery/shore/ river site. I don't need supersecret, need to know data just a rough description of the site. So many questions, I know, as opposed to making a DEFINITE ID looking at some optimized photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj aurora Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 First, let me say I am NOT a member of the Lee Creek Shark Tooth Police. As for an ID, it is not shark, and for Tracer, it is not bison. If it were from Lee Creek I would say it was a Physeter cataodon The few I have from here do have small "ridges" like a croc, but much smaller. Now the people that know what they are talking about can correct me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfossilhunter Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 Thank God your not from the Lee Creek fossil police ........I might be sentence to hard labor in the mines Hmmmmm.......... That might not be a bad thing. TonyThe Brooks Are Like A Box Of Chocolates,,,, You Never Know What You'll Find. I Told You I Don't Have Alzheimer's.....I Have Sometimers. Some Times I Remember And Some Times I Forget.... I Mostly Forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 First, let me say I am NOT a member of the Lee Creek Shark Tooth Police. As for an ID, it is not shark, and for Tracer, it is not bison. If it were from Lee Creek I would say it was a Physeter cataodon The few I have from here do have small "ridges" like a croc, but much smaller. Now the people that know what they are talking about can correct me I think we can eliminate shark, bison, and whale. I see no evidence of horizontal growth rings which Physeter would have. The form is classic reptilian with the root walls thinning to paper-thin with a conical root canal. There is no neck in the canal to form a pulp cavity as found in mammal teeth. In the reptile tooth, this conical recess accommodates the replacement tooth, unlike the teeth of mammals. Indeed, we should eliminate from the list of reasonable possibilities all mammals. Edit: Some mammal teeth grow continuously during life and have open, non-necked pulp cavities. The term used to describe this condition is "hypselodonty" and is usually applied to mammal teeth. Hypselodont teeth are found in xenarthrans, rabbits, some rodents, and a few ungulates, according to Hulbert. None of these taxa are likely to have produced this tooth. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smilodon Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I think we can eliminate shark, bison, and whale. I see no evidence of horizontal growth rings which Physeter would have.The form is classic reptilian with the root walls thinning to paper-thin with a conical root canal. There is no neck in the canal to form a pulp cavity as found in mammal teeth. In the reptile tooth, this conical recess is accommodates the replacement tooth, unlike the teeth of mammals. Indeed, we should eliminate from the list of possibilities all mammals. This is actually puzzling I asked where it was found - Coastal Virginia probably eliminates anything but mio, plio or pleisto I asked about whether it was in the water/wet or dry. The color of the specimen is not black - ergo it was away from sea water. I asked about the vertical ridges to determine if it was croc or alligator. Croc teeth have vertical striations like the specimen shows. I think I asked more but I don't remember what. If he had found it in the Phosphate mines in Florida or in South Carolina, game over. I have an identical croc specimen from bone valley even down to color. The one thing that puzzles me is that I see no evidence of horizontal banding. In a specimen that color, you should see horizontal banding. You all know that fossilized croc teeh that aren't black often exhibit horizontal bands of different colors, right? So, while you may identify something from a photo over the internet. If you want a true id from photos, you need to ask a few questions. Over and out. --------------------------------- "But hey, I could be wrong." Dennis Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorman Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 If you read the initial post you will see it was found in Virginia on the coast likely meaning near a beach. Although it is true that if a tooth is exposed to sea water while fossilizing it will turn black it does not mean that after it is fossilized it will turn black being in sea water. http://www.mgs.md.gov/esic/brochures/teeth/croc.html#antiq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfossilhunter Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 Thank you Harry for you info I was very helpful......And thank you too Anson that link was great I read the whole page........The tooth was found next to a fresh/brackish water river in Virgina along the cliffs.......weather or not its black or any other color it came from a Miocene marine deposit either Choptank or Calvert formation........ any way Thank You all for your help in IDing this tooth ........I was told by someone that I used to know back then that it was a pygmy sperm whale tooth but I didn't think so because others told me it was a croc......... I have croc teeth from other time periods but not with any root to it and the ones I did see had elongated roots like the ones you see from the Cretaceous.......Well thanks again you all been great TonyThe Brooks Are Like A Box Of Chocolates,,,, You Never Know What You'll Find. I Told You I Don't Have Alzheimer's.....I Have Sometimers. Some Times I Remember And Some Times I Forget.... I Mostly Forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 No way to be sure, since it was found as float, but the preservation resembles some of the best stuff I've seen come out of the Choptank Fm. Really nice fossil! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traviscounty Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Most people send me their stuff once there is a general ID consensus. I'll pm you my address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfossilhunter Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 Thank You..... Travis for your most generous offer.......As tempting as it may be.......I most humbly have to decline your generosity...... TonyThe Brooks Are Like A Box Of Chocolates,,,, You Never Know What You'll Find. I Told You I Don't Have Alzheimer's.....I Have Sometimers. Some Times I Remember And Some Times I Forget.... I Mostly Forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smilodon Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 If you read the initial post you will see it was found in Virginia on the coast likely meaning near a beach. Although it is true that if a tooth is exposed to sea water while fossilizing it will turn black it does not mean that after it is fossilized it will turn black being in sea water. http://www.mgs.md.gov/esic/brochures/teeth/croc.html#antiq Anson, In the initial post he said coastal Virginia. Perhaps down your way that means on the shore. In the Mid Atlantic "coastal" means beach and some distance inland. At least to me it does. One reason i asked about the location is that I am unaware of any sites in Virginia that regularly produce teeth that color. I'm sure someone probably does though. As far as black coloration goes I'm not that sure of what you posted. However, I cannot, authoritatively, disagree. See signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfossilhunter Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 I have collected allot of teeth from Virgina as well as vert's that were sticking out of the formations and i can tell you this that the same formation will produce teeth and vert's of all sorts in different colors.........mostly brown's and well as black........I think it may have to do more with species then formation....... TonyThe Brooks Are Like A Box Of Chocolates,,,, You Never Know What You'll Find. I Told You I Don't Have Alzheimer's.....I Have Sometimers. Some Times I Remember And Some Times I Forget.... I Mostly Forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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