Gastrolith from Cloverly Formation?

[-Andy-]

Hi all, I am interested in getting a gastrolith from the Cloverly Formation. It measures 2.2" by 1.2"

 

As I understand though, the "typical" gastrolith comes from the Morrison Formation. Are Cloverly Formation ones common?

 

I've read the various gastrolith threads here. This stone seem to fit the criteria of having certain smooth edges, and unevenly rough sections as well (the smoothness comes from rubbing against the dinosaurs stomach along with acid, rather than being evenly worn by water). Still, I would like your thoughts on this. Does it look like a genuine gastrolith?

 

Thank you.

[Troodon]

Nothing in the Cloverly that is associated with dinosaurs is common.  Looks more like water worn bone than stone with all of the pitting and cellular structure in the center.  

I dont think you can look at a stone and say its a gastrolith or not, its all about where it was found.     Was it in a quarry where dinosaur bones were found, how does it compare to other natural rocks in the area, were other gastroliths found with it?   If found isolated may be more problematic to say its one.

 

Gastroliths are found in most formations where herbivores and tootless theropods are present.  Some were pointed out to a friend of mine by a paleontologist in the Hell Creek. 

 

Interesting recent study on Gastroliths

rspb20063763.pdf

 

[GeschWhat]

I don't think I would ever attempt to purchase gastroliths unless they were present in coprolites or I knew the source and saw in situ photos that clearly demonstrated they were found in a pile surrounded by rib bones. 

[-Andy-]

1 minute ago, GeschWhat said:

I don't think I would ever attempt to purchase gastroliths unless they were present in coprolites or I knew the source and saw in situ photos that clearly demonstrated they were found in a pile surrounded by rib bones. 

 

There supposedly are ways to ID gastroliths even if they are not found associated with a skeleton.

[Troodon]

The only way to positively ID one is their association with sketal remains of a herbivore or toothless theropod or like GeschWhat said in a Coprolite.

[abyssunder]

It looks to me like a tumbled jasper. It's a really nice piece !

 

update....

 

" Diamictites and matrix-supported wackes of the upper Cloverly Formation (Lower Cretaceous) represent rivers laden with volcaniclastic sediment (hyperconcentrated flows). The Cloverly Formation of central Wyoming is dominantly fluvial, lacustrine, and playa deposits. The sediments accumulated east of the Cordilleran foredeep during the early stages of the Sevier orogeny. The diamictites and wackes are decimeters thick and stacked vertically, forming rock bodies up to 11 m thick. Pebbles and cobbles within the diamictites and wackes occur as isolated clasts or in poorly defined layers. Many such clasts exhibit some degree of polish. Clast lithologies can be correlated to rocks that were exposed in the mountain belt to the west. Provenance data are consistent with Early Cretaceous movement on the Meade–Laketown–Paris–Willard thrust system. The clay fraction of the diamictites and wackes is dominantly illite–smectite and smectite characteristic of altered volcanic ash. Diamictites and matrix-supported wackes lack primary sedimentary structures (e.g., cross-stratification) but do exhibit soft-sediment deformation features indicative of dewatering. Erosional bases and bedding geometries are indicative of channelized flow.

The diamictites and matrix-supported wackes resemble debris-flow deposits. However, maintaining debris flows that behave as Bingham plastics on low depositional slopes 200–400 km from the mountain front is improbable. Rather, the diamictites and wackes represent hyperconcentrated flows. Deposition, either en masse by a Newtonian (or nearly Newtonian) flow that was turbulent throughout, or by progressive sedimentation from a stratified flow with a basal, incipient, granular mass flow overlain by a turbulent suspension is more consistent with the field data. Paleohydraulic calculations indicate that grain sizes up to small pebbles could have been transported in suspension, with larger clasts transported as bedload, consistent with sedimentological evidence. Much of the finer-grained suspended sediment was remobilized volcanic ash likely derived from the Idaho batholith to the west-northwest. The polished extraformational pebbles and cobbles, long regarded as dinosaur gastroliths (or "stomach stones"), are simply clasts associated with the hyperconcentrated-flow deposits. The polish exhibited by many of the clasts is attributable to transport in ash-laden flows. The occurrence of polished, extraformational stones in Cloverly diamictites and wackes may have implications for presumed gastroliths in other fluvial rocks of the western interior (e.g., the Cedar Mountain and Morrison formations). " - M. J. Zaleha; S. A. Wiesemann. 2005. Hyperconcentrated Flows and Gastroliths: Sedimentology of Diamictites and Wackes of the Upper Cloverly Formation, Lower Cretaceous, Wyoming, U.S.A. Journal of Sedimentary Research 75(1): 43-54

 

[-Andy-]

On 4/24/2018 at 2:29 AM, Troodon said:

The only way to positively ID one is their association with sketal remains of a herbivore or toothless theropod or like GeschWhat said in a Coprolite.

 

Thanks Frank. No point getting a maybe-gastrolith in this case. I would rather wait for a properly identified one.

 

On 4/24/2018 at 4:05 AM, abyssunder said:

It looks to me like a tumbled jasper. It's a really nice piece !

 

update....

 

" Diamictites and matrix-supported wackes of the upper Cloverly Formation (Lower Cretaceous) represent rivers laden with volcaniclastic sediment (hyperconcentrated flows). The Cloverly Formation of central Wyoming is dominantly fluvial, lacustrine, and playa deposits. The sediments accumulated east of the Cordilleran foredeep during the early stages of the Sevier orogeny. The diamictites and wackes are decimeters thick and stacked vertically, forming rock bodies up to 11 m thick. Pebbles and cobbles within the diamictites and wackes occur as isolated clasts or in poorly defined layers. Many such clasts exhibit some degree of polish. Clast lithologies can be correlated to rocks that were exposed in the mountain belt to the west. Provenance data are consistent with Early Cretaceous movement on the Meade–Laketown–Paris–Willard thrust system. The clay fraction of the diamictites and wackes is dominantly illite–smectite and smectite characteristic of altered volcanic ash. Diamictites and matrix-supported wackes lack primary sedimentary structures (e.g., cross-stratification) but do exhibit soft-sediment deformation features indicative of dewatering. Erosional bases and bedding geometries are indicative of channelized flow.

The diamictites and matrix-supported wackes resemble debris-flow deposits. However, maintaining debris flows that behave as Bingham plastics on low depositional slopes 200–400 km from the mountain front is improbable. Rather, the diamictites and wackes represent hyperconcentrated flows. Deposition, either en masse by a Newtonian (or nearly Newtonian) flow that was turbulent throughout, or by progressive sedimentation from a stratified flow with a basal, incipient, granular mass flow overlain by a turbulent suspension is more consistent with the field data. Paleohydraulic calculations indicate that grain sizes up to small pebbles could have been transported in suspension, with larger clasts transported as bedload, consistent with sedimentological evidence. Much of the finer-grained suspended sediment was remobilized volcanic ash likely derived from the Idaho batholith to the west-northwest. The polished extraformational pebbles and cobbles, long regarded as dinosaur gastroliths (or "stomach stones"), are simply clasts associated with the hyperconcentrated-flow deposits. The polish exhibited by many of the clasts is attributable to transport in ash-laden flows. The occurrence of polished, extraformational stones in Cloverly diamictites and wackes may have implications for presumed gastroliths in other fluvial rocks of the western interior (e.g., the Cedar Mountain and Morrison formations). " - M. J. Zaleha; S. A. Wiesemann. 2005. Hyperconcentrated Flows and Gastroliths: Sedimentology of Diamictites and Wackes of the Upper Cloverly Formation, Lower Cretaceous, Wyoming, U.S.A. Journal of Sedimentary Research 75(1): 43-54

 

 

Great info here. It's a nice piece, but I rather go for a properly identified gastrolith.