Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Tim C

Hi,

 

I have two Spinosaurus teeth, both said to be from Khouribga Morocco but bought from different sellers. Both look convincingly real to me but I'm an absolute novice. One of the two teeth (but not the other) is becoming hollow at the non-pointy end due to the sandy contents crumbling. Gently tapping removes more. The reddish outer enamel surface seems fine though.

 

So is that a bad thing perhaps indicating a fake?  And if it's normal and OK is there an 'acceptable' way of preventing the problem?

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kane

Hello, Tim, and welcome to the forum.

 

If you could post images of the teeth in question, that will help some of our dino teeth experts to tell you more about their authenticity. :) 

 

In terms of preventative medicine for fragile teeth, you could attempt stabilizing it with something like paraloid. But, wait until others see the images of those teeth to make more pinpoint recommendations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tidgy's Dad
Quote

 

Hello, Tim, and a very warm welcome to TFF from Morocco! 

The teeth sound real enough from your description, but we do need to see photos if possible, please. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Troodon

Khouribga is not a locality in Morocco where Spinosaurs teeth are found.  Its typically maastrichtian or earlier in age.  Spinosaurid teeth come from the Kem Kem region.  Probably misinformation on locality.   Please post pictures like the others has mentioned

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tidgy's Dad
6 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Khouribga is not a locality in Morocco where Spinosaurs teeth are found.  Its typically maastrichtian or earlier in age.  Spinosaurid teeth come from the Kem Kem region.  Probably misinformation on locality.   Please post pictures like the others has mentioned

Good point. 

Missed that. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tim C

Thanks for the info about location, just my own silly novice mistake. My tiny fossil collection also includes several Mosasaur teeth from Khouribga so, not knowing Moroccco, I just assumed. "Kem Kem" sounds familiar :-)

 

Hopefully I'll take some pics tomorrow when the light's better, it's night here now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tim C

Hi,

 

So here are some pics of my two Spinosaurus teeth. I have to post the pics in separate posts due to the limitation on size. As mentioned, the non-pointy end of the larger one is becoming hollow as somewhat loose sandy material crumbles out of it.

 

So I was wondering:

 

1) Could this be a sign of it being a fake? Are both teeth genuine?

 

2) Is there an easy way to prevent the sand crumbling out of the larger tooth?

 

3) I recently bumped the smaller tooth and it fractured (quite possibly at a pre-existing fracture that had been glued previously) and I was wondering if there's some easy fix for that, like superglue or something. This smaller tooth wasn't expensive and so I don't need to be precious about it, I just want it back in one piece.

 

Thanks,

 

Cheers Tim

S1560003.JPG

Edited by Tim C

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LordTrilobite

Both are real. Both also look like Spinosaurid. That bigger complete one looks quite nice actually. Very nice cutting edge/carinae on it too. I'm wondering if you could post a closeup picture of the cutting edges to see if it has serrations. If it has serrations, then it's not Spinosaurus aegyptiacus. But it could still possibly be in Spinosaurid family.

 

The sand on the bottom of the tooth is just that, sand. It's part of the original matrix from where the tooth was originally found. In some cases it can be a good idea to keep the bottom filled if there are some fragile edges on the tooth that are really thin. In which case you could use super glue/cyanoacrylate to stabilise it.

 

Same goes for the broken tooth, cyanoacrylate will fix it. The upside is that it's really strong and sets really quicly. The downside is that it doesn't allow for mistakes very well. So make sure you see how the tooth fits together first without glue.

 

And yeah, these teeth are very likely from the Kem Kem beds in Morocco or Algeria. Though by far most of the fossils on the market come from Morocco. The Kem Kem beds have deposits from the beginning of the Late Cretaceous in the Cenomanian. The locality of Khouribga you mentioned has deposits from the Maastrichtian, which is the very end of the Late Cretaceous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Haravex

^ just to confirm and back up what LT has already said, also must say the right tooth is rather nice condition for a 3 inch piece.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Troodon

The bottom part of the larger tooth is actually part of the root of the tooth with the crown above it.  Its typically hollow and extends a bit into the cavity of the crown.  If the sand if loose it can easily be removed with a pin, just be careful dont put much pressure on the wall of the root.   These teeth are fragile as you've learned so handle with care.

 

Due to the abundance of these type of teeth in the Kem Kem they are typically not faked.  What you see are larger ones being composited to make them longer.   You also see lots of poor repairs on the crown with is not evident on yours.  Like Haravex said your larger tooth is very nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tim C
21 hours ago, LordTrilobite said:

Very nice cutting edge/carinae on it too. I'm wondering if you could post a closeup picture of the cutting edges to see if it has serrations. If it has serrations, then it's not Spinosaurus aegyptiacus. But it could still possibly be in Spinosaurid family.

 

Hi LordTrilobite,

 

Here are a few pics of the cutting edge of the larger tooth; I did the best I could with a close up. I don't think the edges are serrated, I think they just show slight signs of wear, ancient or modern. But you be the judge. And please yes, if you or anyone else can confirm which species of Spinosaurus I'd love to know!

S1560022.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LordTrilobite

I think you're right. Especially that second to last photo shows a nice smooth edge that doesn't seem to be damaged even though around the edge it has some quite pronounced sculpting that might suggest serrations if it was not as complete.

 

Sadly, right now Spinosaurid teeth from the Kem Kem beds cannot be identified to species. The presence or lack of serrations however can show a tooth to be in a certain clade. Though it's not clear if they are present in Kem Kem beds at all, Baryonychinae, which includes Baryonyx, Suchomimus and others, all have small serrations on their teeth. The teeth of Spinosaurinae do not have serrations. Spinosaurinae includes Spinosaurus, Irritator and possibly Ichthyovenator.

 

So with the lack of serrations we can say that the tooth likely belongs to Spinosaurinae. Which means there's a possibility that it could be Spinosaurus aegyptiacus. But we really do not know. There is at least one other Spinosaurid species present in the Kem Kem beds. Sigilmassasaurus brevicollis. And it seems like it might be more closely related to Baryonyx than to Spinosaurus. But right now we don't know for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tim C

Hi,

 

Thanks to everyone for the replies so far, very helpful! It's nice to be reassured that the teeth are genuine.

 

I think I might carefully remove the sand with a pin. The root of the tooth looks pretty sturdy and I'd rather remove something superfluous than permanently add something that doesn't belong. And great to hear that my smaller tooth can be fixed with a drop of superglue.

 

And it was great to read the comments about the quality of the tooth, especially when I didn't even ask about it. The tooth was quite expensive, about ten times as much as the cost of the smaller, lesser quality one, so it's very nice to hear that I bought a nice piece! A good size, fairly well preserved enamel, section of hollow root, and no obvious breaks or repairs. Also the pics don't do justice to the nice colour, quite reddish (maybe from an iron component in the mineralization, I'm just guessing).

 

I actually bought it at the gift shop of a museum so I would've been surprised if it had been fake. What I really wanted to take home from the shop though was an amazing carcharodontosaurus tooth.  I've seen them for sale before but always tiny, comparatively cheap ones. Now I'm just going by memory but I'd estimate that this one was about 15 cm (6 inches) long and looked in great condition. An amazing thing. It was being sold for AUD $3.500. More than I can afford :-(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tim C
14 minutes ago, LordTrilobite said:

Sadly, right now Spinosaurid teeth from the Kem Kem beds cannot be identified to species. The presence or lack of serrations however can show a tooth to be in a certain clade.

 

Thanks for that info LT, it's a shame it can't be pinned down to an exact species, especially when the likely candidate is such a "prestigious" one. Both of the teeth (bought at two separate shops) were definitely labelled as "Spinosaurus" teeth. Still, they're definitely from something huge and carnivorous, and I suppose that's what counts! :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×