GeschWhat Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 I just received this amazing piece of Burmese amber yesterday. The seller thought the long strands were pine needles, but I think they are segmented coprolites from an insect/larva similar to that of the modern sawfly larva. While, I'm pretty good at spotting fossilized fecal matter, I'm not so good at bugs. I'm hoping someone here can help me ID the insects and mite so that I can confirm this dates to the Cretaceous. 1. Can anyone tell me what this one is? It was identified by the seller as a sand fly. I'm hoping the terminal appendages (hopefully I'm using the correct terminology) might be diagnostic. 2. Next is this little flying insect (the wings are really hard to see), that was identified by the seller as a wasp. It looks more like a flying ant to me, but I know next to nothing about bugs. 3. This one looks like a mite to me, but was not mentioned by the seller. 4. The boxy shape of this one looks like a smaller version of what I've seen identified as "bark beetle" in Dominican amber. However, I haven't been able to find anything similar Burmese amber. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 Here are photos of what I believe are segmented fecal strings from some sort of larva or caterpillar. Their fibers seem to be too willy nilly (highly technical term ) to be pine needs IMHO. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 Here is a photo of the enhydro and a LINK to the video. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Grimaldi or Engel of the American museum of natural History might know,or else George poinar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, doushantuo said: Grimaldi or Engel of the American museum of natural History might know, They are so busy, I hate to bother them. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 the second one looks vaguely dryinid,but heck,what do I know? BTW: 100_Million_years_of_morphological_conservation_in.pdf Bark,you beetle!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, doushantuo said: the second one looks vaguely dryinid,but heck,what do I know? Most likely more than I do Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 ricinuleids in ASian amber : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darktooth Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Taste Test! I like Trilo-butts and I cannot lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Darktooth said: Taste Test! LOL...I draw the line at bugs, thank you. The ricinuleids do remind me a bit of softshell crabs they put in po boys down in New Orleans. They looked too much like fried insects on a bun - I couldn't bring myself to try them. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darktooth Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Not even in the name of science? Come on! I expected better from you! I like Trilo-butts and I cannot lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 hour ago, doushantuo said: ricinuleids in ASian amber : I wish I could get photos like that through my microscope. Mine was taken through the 40X lens, which I think is a little defective since it makes everything look a little cloudy. I ordered a bunch of books on amber yesterday. Hopefully, I will find something useful in those. We could really use some amber entomology experts here on the forum. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentx Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Agree that the 'strands' look way more like poop than a pine needle. Lower right especially looks to be made of digested debris. Perhaps seller didn't have access to magnifier. "Journey through a universe ablaze with changes" Phil Ochs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Darktooth said: Not even in the name of science? Come on! I expected better from you! I did eat a dried worm on one of the digs a few years back, but I was plastered. Literally. I had tripped and ended up wearing the wet plaster I was carrying. I had to cut my hair to get the plaster out. Back at camp, someone had brought dried worms, so I figured what the heck. Beer may have been involved back at base camp. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Innocentx said: Agree that the 'strands' look way more like poop than a pine needle. Lower right especially looks to be made of digested debris. Perhaps seller didn't have access to magnifier. That is what I thought as well. Thanks for confirming. I suspected but wasn't sure if they were coprolites when I bought them. The seller had some pretty good shots, but I think they were at a little lower magnification with different lighting (one below). I have bought a lot of Dominican amber with coprolites from him in the past. I don't think he has been selling the Burmese variety long. Even if I was wrong, I figured it was worth the price just for the enhydro. I love anything unusual. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 2 hours ago, GeschWhat said: I just received this amazing piece of Burmese amber yesterday. The seller thought the long strands were pine needles, but I think they are segmented coprolites from an insect/larva similar to that of the modern sawfly larva. While, I'm pretty good at spotting fossilized fecal matter, I'm not so good at bugs. I'm hoping someone here can help me ID the insects and mite so that I can confirm this dates to the Cretaceous. 1. Can anyone tell me what this one is? It was identified by the seller as a sand fly. I'm hoping the terminal appendages (hopefully I'm using the correct terminology) might be diagnostic. 2. Next is this little flying insect (the wings are really hard to see), that was identified by the seller as a wasp. It looks more like a flying ant to me, but I know next to nothing about bugs. 3. This one looks like a mite to me, but was not mentioned by the seller. 4. The boxy shape of this one looks like a smaller version of what I've seen identified as "bark beetle" in Dominican amber. However, I haven't been able to find anything similar Burmese amber. Yes, male sandflies from the family Phlebotomidae have this arrangement at the posterior of the abdomen. 2. is a parasitic wasp. Note the long segmented antennae for detecting prey or hosts for the eggs and also the thin section connecting the thorax and abdomen. 3. I think it's a louse. A mite should have 8 legs and this seems to have only the six. Though not sure, it's not very clear. 4. Looks like the larval stage of something, but i'm not sure what. All beautiful specimens. Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 2 hours ago, GeschWhat said: Here are photos of what I believe are segmented fecal strings from some sort of larva or caterpillar. Their fibers seem to be too willy nilly (highly technical term ) to be pine needs IMHO. Pine needles are very smooth even under magnification. I think you're right and this is poop, but I don't know from what. Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 57 minutes ago, GeschWhat said: LOL...I draw the line at bugs, thank you. The ricinuleids do remind me a bit of softshell crabs they put in po boys down in New Orleans. They looked too much like fried insects on a bun - I couldn't bring myself to try them. You draw the line at bugs, but bug poop would be fine? Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 41 minutes ago, GeschWhat said: I did eat a dried worm on one of the digs a few years back, but I was plastered. Literally. I had tripped and ended up wearing the wet plaster I was carrying. I had to cut my hair to get the plaster out. Back at camp, someone had brought dried worms, so I figured what the heck. Beer may have been involved back at base camp. I've eaten shed loads of insects, including things like those. Some of them are delicious! Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taogan Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 The insect frass is definitely insect frass, from a herbivorous insect, but it might not be larval. Some of my phasmids produce something similar. All I would be confident in saying is that it comes from a leaf eating insect. The "larval" stages of mites have six legs, they get their last pair as an adult, so your mite could be. The last one looks a bit like a thrip, but I'm not sure if there were Cretaceous thrips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said: Yes, male sandflies from the family Phlebotomidae have this arrangement at the posterior of the abdomen. 2. is a parasitic wasp. Note the long segmented antennae for detecting prey or hosts for the eggs and also the thin section connecting the thorax and abdomen. 3. I think it's a louse. A mite should have 8 legs and this seems to have only the six. Though not sure, it's not very clear. 4. Looks like the larval stage of something, but i'm not sure what. All beautiful specimens. Thank you! Do you see anything that would identify them as Cretaceous? 6 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said: You draw the line at bugs, but bug poop would be fine? Only the fossilized variety...it is just rock after all . I worked at an outdoor expo a couple of weeks ago. This guy was telling me that he had licked fossil poop when he was working with a bunch of kids. I guess he got really sick the next day and was convinced that he had contracted some prehistoric disease. At the time he hadn't thought about how many germy little hands had touch it before he licked it. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, GeschWhat said: Thank you! Do you see anything that would identify them as Cretaceous? Only the fossilized variety...it is just rock after all . I worked at an outdoor expo a couple of weeks ago. This guy was telling me that he had licked fossil poop when he was working with a bunch of kids. I guess he got really sick the next day and was convinced that he had contracted some prehistoric disease. At the time he hadn't thought about how many germy little hands had touch it before he licked it. I know a little about modern insects, but very, very little about fossil ones, so i couldn't say if they're Cretaceous or not. I must admit, that although I have eaten all sorts of very peculiar things, I have never licked a coprolite. Not that I'm squeamish or afraid of contracting a prehistoric or modern disease, but just not got round to it. I will try to remember and lick some this week. Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, Taogan said: The insect frass is definitely insect frass, from a herbivorous insect, but it might not be larval. Some of my phasmids produce something similar. All I would be confident in saying is that it comes from a leaf eating insect. The "larval" stages of mites have six legs, they get their last pair as an adult, so your mite could be. The last one looks a bit like a thrip, but I'm not sure if there were Cretaceous thrips I had to look up phasmids. Amazing looking creatures! I haven't yet found any really good pictures of their droppings, but this one seems to fit. I would bet there are a number of insects that have similar droppings. I found one photo of bee droppings that seemed to have a similar shape, though it appeared much more homogeneous due to their diet. I had never heard of thrips before. Thank you, it gives me something else to look into. When I first saw the last one, I thought of the leafhoppers I always see in the grass - though likely too large. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said: I know a little about modern insects, but very, very little about fossil ones, so i couldn't say if they're Cretaceous or not. I must admit, that although I have eaten all sorts of very peculiar things, I have never licked a coprolite. Not that I'm squeamish or afraid of contracting a prehistoric or modern disease, but just not got round to it. I will try to remember and lick some this week. With all the coprolites you receive, I thought for sure you would have licked one or two. Something to aspire to Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Just now, GeschWhat said: With all the coprolites you receive, I thought for sure you would have licked one or two. Something to aspire to I am quite looking forward to it. Gives me something to look forward to this week. Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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