Ed Clopton Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Forgive me if I'm being impatient or repeating myself--I'm new to this site and forum. I tried posting this under Questions and Answers a while ago and haven't seen it appear yet--maybe there's an approval process that has to run its course before a post appears publicly. In case I just didn't get it entered correctly I'll try again under this heading, which I didn't see at first. ANYWAY . . . . Does anyone have experience removing iron stains from St. Clair, Pennsylvania plant fossils? The white mineral that provides the striking contrast with the slate is pyrophyllite, a silicate. As an avid mineral collector (sorry, not too knowledgeable about fossils, even though I grew up in eastern Iowa--I decided I couldn't be an expert on both and settled on minerals) I am familiar with using Iron Out, Waller's solution, oxalic acid, etc. to remove iron oxide stains from mineral specimens. Can iron oxide stains be removed (or at least lightened) on St. Clair fossils by soaking in one of those reagents? They shouldn't affect the pyrophyllite chemically, but I can see how removing the iron oxide could disrupt the coating physically. I do not intend to scrub them--I'm sure that would do more harm than good. Any other suggestions? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 First, welcome to the Fossil Forum. your post is showing as your first, which means your earlier attempt went astray. I'll be surprised if it turns out anyone here has experimented with the things you are asking about. Generally people whose first concern is the fossil would not risk it to get a bit of iron stain out. However it may turn out that I am wrong. If you don't have material to experiment on yourself, it's possible someone may have some bits to spare for you. Unfortunately St. Clair is now closed so new material is not available, which means good pieces are somewhat precious. Good luck, Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 I don't think I would risk a nice fossil to remove iron stains "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Welcome to the Fossil Forum Ed. I did a little research and found that the rocks are shale and siltstone but not slate. I'd be concerned that any fluid would cause the rock to fall apart. Try a few drops of fluid on the backside. I also was ready to recommend that you post your question on Mindat since they have a lot experience cleaning minerals. You beat us to it. You might also consider cleaning with houshold bleach. My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 If the iron is on the fossil itself I would leave it as is, since it may also permeate the fossil. If it's just on the matrix then you could experiment, but it's hard from this point of view to judge without a photo. I do know that nobody fools around in that way with fossils from Piesberg in Osnabrück and that site has exactly the same type of preservation as in St. Clair. Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Hello, Ed, and a very warm welcome to TFF from Morocco! I wouldn't risk it myself. Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Clopton Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 Thanks for the input. I stand corrected on slate vs. shale/siltstone. The iron oxide defiinitely is in the fossil itself: the specimen has the classic St. Clair appearance except that the leaves are brown on black instead of white on black. Since as I understand it the fossilization process started with pyrite that later was replaced by pyrophyllite (a strange sequence mineralogically), one question is whether that replacement never happened on my particular specimen and that the pyrite (iron sulfide) merely oxidized to goethite, etc., meaning that it might consist of iron (hydr)oxide instead of, vs. in addition to, pyrophyllite. Closer examination might answer that. There are some fragments on the back that could be removed for experimentation without damaging the specimen proper at all--might even reveal some more fossil impressions, and reduce its bulk by a few grams in the process. I may give that a try. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Welcome to the Forum, Ed. Glad to have you aboard. If you do end up experimenting, we would love to hear about your results! Any information you garner from your experiments would be helpful to the community. I do know the pyrophyllite coating is fairly easily removed by handling (skin oils) and constant exposure to water. (Rain) Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Clopton Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 Here's an anticlimactic followup on this topic. I lost my nerve to experiment, having only one good specimen and almost no scrap material to play with, so I have decided to leave well enough alone. Apologies to those who have been waiting all summer with bated breath to see how I made out . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptychodus04 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Probably a wise choice in retrospect. I have prep projects that take years to complete so a summer is insignificant compared to the power of the Force. Sorry, was feeling like Vader for a moment. Glad to hear you didn’t end up ruining it (been there, done that too many times). Regards, Kris Global Paleo Services, LLC https://globalpaleoservices.com http://instagram.com/globalpaleoservices http://instagram.com/kris.howe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 43 minutes ago, Ptychodus04 said: Sorry, was feeling like Vader for a moment. Must have been the heavy breathing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptychodus04 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 1 hour ago, caldigger said: Must have been the heavy breathing! Plausible theory. Regards, Kris Global Paleo Services, LLC https://globalpaleoservices.com http://instagram.com/globalpaleoservices http://instagram.com/kris.howe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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