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Are these two cow sharks one?


Miocene_Mason

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I found these two cow sharks (notorhyncus primigenus, bluntnose seven Gill) yesterday, miocene, Brownies beach. They were on both on a previous tide line within four feet of each other. The colors and size a very similar, so is it possible or likely that the lower and the symphyseal are associated? As in, from the same animal?

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“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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Is it possible?  Perhaps. I think it would be a bit of a stretch to call them associated, unless they were found in a jaw or together with a ton of other teeth in situ.

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    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."

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Million-to-one chance, at best. Float fossils should never be referred to as "associated".

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"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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These teeth weather out of the cliffs, often from cliff falls, then roll around on the beach until they are picked up. The odds that two teeth could be shed from the same animal at the same time, end up in the sediment side by side, weather out together, and stay side by side as the waves push them up and down the shore are virtually zero.

Very nice finds by the way. 

 

Don

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10 minutes ago, Auspex said:

Million-to-one chance, at best. Float fossils should never be referred to as "associated".

Agree totally! But really great finds.

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@Fossildude19 @Auspex @FossilDAWG @fossilselachian

 

Thanks for your input! I thought it was unlikely, just thought it was odd to find such similar teeth right next to each other, them being as uncommon as they are. I guess those many tales of heard of find The other half of a fossil months after finding the first are getting to me. Thanks again!

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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In your calculation of the chances, remember to factor in that the vast majority of fossil shark's teeth found are sheds, not from articulated jaws. A shark will sprinkle thousands of teeth around the ocean in its life. Two halves of a broken tooth were one whole tooth until after they weathered out.

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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Agree with the above. 

Really nice finds, though. :)

Life's Good!

Tortoise Friend.

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1 hour ago, Auspex said:

In your calculation of the chances, remember to factor in that the vast majority of fossil shark's teeth found are sheds, not from articulated jaws. A shark will sprinkle thousands of teeth around the ocean in its life. Two halves of a broken tooth were one whole tooth until after they weathered out.

Yeah, that’s true. Just a side note, I’ve always wondered if scientists could somehow excavate the a large chunk of those cliffs (which they probably couldn’t) how many skeletons they find. Vertebrae are fairly common, and from multiple species. 

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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1 hour ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Agree with the above. 

Really nice finds, though. :)

Thanks!

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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@WhodamanHD Both of those teeth are in superb condition for the cliffs. It doesn't appear to be any root damage at all which is quite rare. I myself have always wanted to find a cowshark symphaseal, but they have eluded me. Consider yourself to be blessed finding two superb cowsharks in the same hunt. Congratulations,  I am truly happy for you, and:envy: at the same time!

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I like Trilo-butts and I cannot lie.

 

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9 minutes ago, Darktooth said:

@WhodamanHD Both of those teeth are in superb condition for the cliffs. It doesn't appear to be any root damage at all which is quite rare. I myself have always wanted to find a cowshark symphaseal, but they have eluded me. Consider yourself to be blessed finding two superb cowsharks in the same hunt. Congratulations,  I am truly happy for you, and:envy: at the same time!

Thanks! I was extremely happy to find it, my expression was one of complete awe. There were two other hunters ten feet to either side of me, both must’ve missed it. I was very lucky, and I am thankful for that. Keep looking, I’m sure you’ll find one!

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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In 45 years I’ve only found 5 complete Symphyeals and maybe 3 in your condition that I would say complete. Congrats to a very good and rare find.

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4 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said:

Thanks! I was extremely happy to find it, my expression was one of complete awe. There were two other hunters ten feet to either side of me, both must’ve missed it. I was very lucky, and I am thankful for that. Keep looking, I’m sure you’ll find one!

Yeah I have to get back down there. Normally I would have been down already for atleast one hunt thes year but things keeo getting in the way. And like you stated in your other thread I won't be paying those high prices to get in over the summer. I have talked to the wife about going to the Potomac this summer though. Still have to figure out when.

Dipleurawhisperer5.jpg          MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png

I like Trilo-butts and I cannot lie.

 

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13 minutes ago, Darktooth said:

Yeah I have to get back down there. Normally I would have been down already for atleast one hunt thes year but things keeo getting in the way. And like you stated in your other thread I won't be paying those high prices to get in over the summer. I have talked to the wife about going to the Potomac this summer though. Still have to figure out when.

Good luck! A few shark tooth hunts a year keeps good health near!

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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18 minutes ago, Calvert Cliff Dweller said:

In 45 years I’ve only found 5 complete Symphyeals and maybe 3 in your condition that I would say complete. Congrats to a very good and rare find.

Thanks! I’m still kinda buzzing from the initial find! I’ll take this tooth over a meg any day!

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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  • 2 weeks later...
On May 13, 2018 at 12:55 PM, Fossildude19 said:

Is it possible?  Perhaps. I think it would be a bit of a stretch to call them associated, unless they were found in a jaw or together with a ton of other teeth in situ.

 

 

Hi Tim,

 

That symphyseal is too big to fit with the lower in the same mouth

 

Jess 

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21 minutes ago, siteseer said:

 

 

Hi Tim,

 

That symphyseal is too big to fit with the lower in the same mouth

 

Jess 

I’ve never seen a cow shark jaw, is the symphyseal significantly smaller than all the others?

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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23 minutes ago, siteseer said:

 

 

Hi Tim,

 

That symphyseal is too big to fit with the lower in the same mouth

 

Jess 

 

Thanks Jess. I appreciate the comment.   :dinothumb:
When it comes to shark teeth, I am way out of my depth. :blush: 

I continue to learn about them through helpful comments like this. ;) 

 

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

   MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png      PaleoPartner.png.30c01982e09b0cc0b7d9d6a7a21f56c6.png.a600039856933851eeea617ca3f2d15f.png     Postmaster1.jpg.900efa599049929531fa81981f028e24.jpg    VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png  VFOTM  --- APRIL - 2015  

__________________________________________________
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."

John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~   ><))))( *>  About Me      

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7 hours ago, WhodamanHD said:

I’ve never seen a cow shark jaw, is the symphyseal significantly smaller than all the others?

 

From jaws I've seen, the symphyseal is noticeably shorter and of course with a smaller root than the lower anterolateral next to it.  It's hard to put a number on it but it might be 15-20 % shorter (as I eyeball it) than a lower anterolateral next to it.

 

 

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