CBN brachiopods

[Max-fossils]

Hi all,

 

Found these two brachiopods by splitting rocks at Cap-Blanc-Nez in France. Most fossils there are Cretaceous in age, but these were found in greyer rocks that felt more like clay than chalk to me. I suppose that means they are from a different layer...? If so, what would the age be (stage)?

 

Anyways, what species do you guys think they are?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Max

 

 

 

Brachiopod #1:

 

[Max-fossils]

Brachiopod #2:

 

[ynot]

Can't help id, but nice specimens.

 

[Innocentx]

Compare to brachiopods Rhynchoellida and Cyclothyris. I think that's what you have.

[Tidgy's Dad]

Pretty tricky to identify, especially with neither internal structure nor precise formation, but Cyclothris cf. compressa is a possiblity for the second one.  

[dalmayshun]

The first one looks so much like the Capex Hiscobeccus I find in ordovician material here, wondering if it could be related. 

[dalmayshun]

btw max, I have a few fossil discards I am interested in getting rid of...they were fossils I picked up, which were later replaced by slightly better versions. I can't bear to just toss them, so I thought of you, you might be interested. At any rate email me, and I'll send photos of what I am willing to part with, then you can decide if you'd like me to send them off. Most are pleistocene, pliocene...some bivalves, some gastropods. Strombus's for example. (rbusch1062@aol.com). 

[Max-fossils]

On 5/20/2018 at 3:48 PM, ynot said:

Can't help id, but nice specimens.

 

Thanks  

They're (so far, some are still in prepping phase) the only nice fossils I collected in Cap-Blanc-Nez.

 

23 hours ago, dalmayshun said:

The first one looks so much like the Capex Hiscobeccus I find in ordovician material here, wondering if it could be related. 

It does look kinda similar!

Hiscobeccus capax is part of the Rhynchonellida order, and I think mine is part of that order too (as suggested by @Innocentx). 

 

On 5/20/2018 at 7:40 PM, Innocentx said:

Compare to brachiopods Rhynchoellida and Cyclothyris. I think that's what you have.

 

23 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Pretty tricky to identify, especially with neither internal structure nor precise formation, but Cyclothris cf. compressa is a possiblity for the second one.  

It does look kinda similar, but I'm not convinced... The Cyclothyris (and C. compressa) images I see online are all much wider than mine.

I would've said that it's from the same family, Cyclothyridae, but apparently Cyclothyris is the type genus of the family (and the only genus within it). So either my second brachiopod is another Cyclothyris species (of which the image I haven't seen online), or my shell is part of the Rhinconellida order. 

Thanks for the help though, Adam and Innocentx!

[Max-fossils]

23 hours ago, dalmayshun said:

btw max, I have a few fossil discards I am interested in getting rid of...they were fossils I picked up, which were later replaced by slightly better versions. I can't bear to just toss them, so I thought of you, you might be interested. At any rate email me, and I'll send photos of what I am willing to part with, then you can decide if you'd like me to send them off. Most are pleistocene, pliocene...some bivalves, some gastropods. Strombus's for example. 

4

Well I'll be more than glad to pick up some of the fossils you're no longer interested in, especially if they are bivalves and gastropods! 

I'll send you a PM about this tomorrow.

Thanks a lot by the way Rod, your offer is much appreciated!  

[Tidgy's Dad]

Just now, Max-fossils said:

Thanks  

They're (so far, some are still in prepping phase) the only nice fossils I collected in Cap-Blanc-Nez.

 

It does look kinda similar!

Hiscobeccus capax is part of the Rhynchonellida order, and I think mine is part of that order too (as suggested by @Innocentx). 

 

 

It does look kinda similar, but I'm not convinced... The Cyclothyris (and C. compressa) images I see online are all much wider than mine.

I would've said that it's from the same family, Cyclothyridae, but apparently Cyclothyris is the type genus of the family (and the only genus within it). So either my second brachiopod is another Cyclothyris species (of which the image I haven't seen online), or my shell is part of the Rhinconellida order. 

Thanks for the help though, Adam and Innocentx!

Both of yours are certainly order Rhynchonellida (as is Cyclothyris). That's the easy part. 

Hiscobeccus belongs to the early subfamily Rhynchotrematinae which became extinct in the Devonian. 

If it is likely you have rocks going back that far near your Cretaceous outcrop it could be any one of a gazillion species! 

Cyclothyris isn't always wide, for example C. globosa. (not that yours is this) 

Rhynchonellids are extremely hard to id without internal structure and/or an exact formation.

This photographer had the same problem with your location.

http://earthphysicsteaching.homestead.com/Mesozoic_Brachiopods_2.html

In short, I'm not sure what they are , other than rhynchonellids.

 

[Max-fossils]

14 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Both of yours are certainly order Rhynchonellida (as is Cyclothyris). That's the easy part. 

Hiscobeccus belongs to the early subfamily Rhynchotrematinae which became extinct in the Devonian. 

If it is likely you have rocks going back that far near your Cretaceous outcrop it could be any one of a gazillion species! 

Cyclothyris isn't always wide, for example C. globosa. (not that yours is this) 

Rhynchonellids are extremely hard to id without internal structure and/or an exact formation.

This photographer had the same problem with your location.

http://earthphysicsteaching.homestead.com/Mesozoic_Brachiopods_2.html

In short, I'm not sure what they are , other than rhynchonellids.

 

5

Hmmmm... I think you're right. 

Should I label the second one as Cyclothyris sp then?

 

Oh, and any more thoughts on the first one? Or just Rhynchonellida indet?

[Tidgy's Dad]

2 hours ago, Max-fossils said:

Hmmmm... I think you're right. 

Should I label the second one as Cyclothyris sp then?

 

Oh, and any more thoughts on the first one? Or just Rhynchonellida indet?

I don't actually think it is Cyclothyris, only a possibility. 

Rhynchonellida indet for both until you know at least the age of the grey 'clay' they were found in. 

 

[Max-fossils]

1 hour ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

I don't actually think it is Cyclothyris, only a possibility. 

Rhynchonellida indet for both until you know at least the age of the grey 'clay' they were found in. 

 

Ok. 

I have some literature about the location, I'll try and find the precise age of that clay in there.