Dealers: Moroccan Fossils?

[Masp]

Thanks to some help from @Troodon  I now understand much more about Kem Kem and how little is understood there still regarding fossils and species of that area.. I tend to find that buying these fossils online becomes a difficult task because of how  much eveeything is ID’d wrong.  I’ve done pretty well with dodging the really bad junk stuff, like two different fossils being plastered together, fakes, etc. (At least I’m almost positive),  but sometimes you buy things and of course it’s a different animal than l you expected..  I’m not sure if there is already a thread for this but anyway, this way others can benefit also...

 

 two questions:

 

1.)  does anyone know any credible, honest, and knowledgable fossil dealers who deal moroccan fossils online, who from your experience is good to buy from?

 

2.)  any good literature, or links online for learning more about dinosaurs and reptiles of Kem Kem? 

 

[digit]

Just to head this one off before we get there--

 

If anybody has input to question number 1 above, please consider this. If you've had (what you believe to be) a great experience (and transaction) directly with dealers in Morocco or middlemen dealers (including our favorite auction site) feel free to give them props here if they've gone out of their way to be helpful. If you've had a less than satisfactory transaction (which can happen with Kem Kem material) let's try to inform the original poster with a PM to keep that information private. Though it may seem like a "public service" to "out" dealers who offer sham fossils or wildly mislabeled items, shaming them on this public forum can open TFF open to liability issues (even if the criticism is well deserved). TFF has enough funds to pay for hosting (thanks to generous forum-benefitting auctions) but not to defend itself from a defamation lawsuit (even if frivolous).

 

As for question 2 above, this would be a great place to help others if you know of references to good literature (if any) on the fauna of Kem Kem. Feel free to post the names of publications you've found or links to useful websites you've encountered.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Troodon]

I will PM you a dealer who knows more that others but I would not trust any ID from anyone.  Post here before you buy.  So little is understood from the region and its constantly changing that its very difficult to ID anything even to a genus level, forget about species.  There are papers out there that are a bit helpful but most of the material you see sold is not covered.  

 

Question interested in teeth bones or both?

 

Fruitbat's library is good .

 

 

[Kane]

Just to add to Ken's message, when in doubt - no matter how small - feel free to post images in our "Is it real?" subforum for our experts to weigh in. This makes it more about the individual items themselves, and less about the individual sellers.

 

Keep in mind that not all resellers have the benefit of expertise to determine what is real, fake, composited, or restoration %. They may sell authentic items, but may also inadvertently sell inauthentic items, and so saying "reseller x always sells authentic items and is thus trustworthy" may not be true in all cases. 

[Troodon]

Let me add that the issues you have in this fauna is that very few articulated skeletons have been found.  Those found are partials without skulls making identification very difficult and limit the amount of publications possible.   Techniques used to identify material is to try compare against other localities with similar fauna in South American or Madagascar.  Sometimes its gets us to a family level.   

[Masp]

2 hours ago, Troodon said:

I will PM you a dealer who knows more that others but I would not trust any ID from anyone.  Post here before you buy.  So little is understood from the region and its constantly changing that its very difficult to ID anything even to a genus level, forget about species.  There are papers out there that are a bit helpful but most of the material you see sold is not covered.  

 

Question interested in teeth bones or both?

 

Fruitbat's library is good .

 

 

Both really...but in this case  I am interested in properly ID listed bones

[Tidgy's Dad]

It can be tricky with Moroccan material and dealers. 

I would say that most don't know what they have, really, some put a name on an item because they know it will sell, "Spinosaur tooth" sells better than "I have no idea what this is tooth, it may be a dino or a croc or a mosasaur, who knows?". And the finders and preppers sometimes sell to the dealers with inaccurate information, both deliberately and out of ignorance. 

Masp, if there's anything in particular you want I can have it made for you. 

[Masp]

@Tidgy's Dad I will keep that in mind , thank you! Do you have anything like a site or something to look at stuff? 

[Fossildude19]

5 minutes ago, Masp said:

@Tidgy's Dad I will keep that in mind , thank you! Do you have anything like a site or something to look at stuff? 

 

He was joking.   

He is in Morocco, and they are very inventive in Morocco with the fossils, sometimes.  

Hence, the "I can have it made for you."   

[Tidgy's Dad]

Just now, Masp said:

@Tidgy's Dad I will keep that in mind , thank you! Do you have anything like a site or something to look at stuff? 

Yes, TFF! 

Seriously, not really, I don't go looking at Moroccan material on the internet, other than here on the forum, there's not much point for me.

[Masp]

Just now, Fossildude19 said:

 

He was joking.   

He is in Morocco, and they are very inventive in Morocco with the fossils, sometimes.  

Lol I thought he meant he had a connection...it’s all good..@Tidgy’s Dad

[Troodon]

34 minutes ago, Masp said:

Both really...but in this case  I am interested in properly ID listed bones

Bones from Spinosaurids especially vertebrae will be your best opportunity to get valid IDs.   That link I PM you on Kem Kem vertebrae should help.   But outside of that it will be very problematic but might be able to get you to a family level.  

[Masp]

 From here on in anything I’m interested in online.. I’ll post here first before buying. 

[digit]

Not a bad idea--now if we can just find a good forum to help buying a used car.

 

Keep in mind that forum members will add their thoughts about a particular fossil you may be interested in buying but we don't really offer valuations so you'll have to decide if the price is appropriate given what feedback you may get here on TFF.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Troodon]

4 minutes ago, Masp said:

 From here on in anything I’m interested in online.. I’ll post here first before buying. 

Good move.

 

You were asking about books and you have your Allo bone.  Here is a great reference source for Allosaurus material and it was cheap.

Allosaurus fragilis a revised Osteology by James Madsen

Not much shown in teeth shown but very detailed illustrations of skulls, bones, vertebrae, hands and feet.

Available at Utah Geological Survey bulletin 109 

 

 

 

Nothing for Africa and mostly focused on teeth

 

[Masp]

5 minutes ago, digit said:

Not a bad idea--now if we can just find a good forum to help buying a used car.

 

Keep in mind that forum members will add their thoughts about a particular fossil you may be interested in buying but we don't really offer valuations so you'll have to decide if the price is appropriate given what feedback you may get here on TFF.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

Lol sure no problem.. don’t worry,  price is up to me to figure out...  my concern here is authenticity. 

[digit]

As it should be.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Masp]

4 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Good move.

 

You were asking about books and you have your Allo bone.  Here is a great reference source for Allosaurus material and it was cheap.

Allosaurus fragilis a revised Osteology by James Madsen

Not much shown in teeth shown but very detailed illustrations of skulls, bones, vertebrae, hands and feet.

Available at Utah Geological Survey bulletin 109 

 

 

 

Nothing for Africa and mostly focused on teeth

 

Wow wonderful! Will be purchasing that then

[Masp]

@Troodon just bought it. Can’t wait to look into it. 

[Troodon]

Here is a preview of your book, your ischium to see if it's an Allo

 

Another book I can recommend from Utah is this one.  Not anywhere close to the Allo book but a limited reference for Ceratosaurus.  Chose to show it here versus PM so others can see it.

 

The other book I like to recommend to newbie's is this one from Canada.  Although it speakes to Campanian fossils the subject matter is usable in the Hell Creek Fm.  Good illustrations of bones, no teeth in the book.  In my best book link.

[Masp]

17 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Here is a preview of your book, your ischium to see if it's an Allo

 

Another book I can recommend from Utah is this one.  Not anywhere close to the Allo book but a limited reference for Ceratosaurus.  Chose to show it here versus PM so others can see it.

 

The other book I like to recommend to newbie's is this one from Canada.  Although it speakes to Campanian fossils the subject matter is usable in the Hell Creek Fm.  Good illustrations of bones, no teeth in the book.  In my best book link.

^ where can i purchase this guide for common vert.

[Troodon]

Here is the link 

 

http://www.albertapaleo.org/

[ynot]

3 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

if there's anything in particular you want I can have it made for you.

[Haravex]

I have only brought american fossils from them as I can't get over there to the states, but they do have some Moroccan dinosaur fossils on there, and the service for what I have bought has been great very well packaged a little gift put in here and there all makes up the service and experience of buying fossils. Anyway the website is fossilera I believe the owner is named Matt and is on the forums I want to say but don't quote me on that as not a 100% sure.