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Spinosaurus Aegypticus - jaw fragment ?


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Hi all. I'm looking to buy a Spinosaurus jaw, or at least a piece of one. I know that a lot of crocodile jaws are fashioned and fitted with teeth to resemble one, with some distinct differences to the structure and composition of the bone. This one is being sold by a reputable seller as authentic with no repair/restoration (though I'm presuming the teeth have been added).

 

It appears to be all good from my limited experience and looks like it should, both in structure and composition. I was just hoping to get some more opinions from all you lovely people on here, as I'm not overly knowledgeable on these. This one is small and approx 4 inches long x 3 inches high.

 

Many thanks for any input. 

 

Found:- Tegana Formation, Aptian, Cretaceous, Kem Kem Basin, Morocco, North Africa. Age:- 100 Million Years Old.

 

RIMG6115.jpg

RIMG6116.jpg

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I might be off key here, but doesn't the majority of Ken Kem material sport that classic red matrix color?

 

 

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And the Tegana Formation is not one of the Kem Kem members. 

And we are forbidden to give appraisals of value on the forum. 

Life's Good!

Tortoise Friend.

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I don’t see the pits I would expect from a croc jaw but I know very little in This area.

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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16 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

And the Tegana Formation is not one of the Kem Kem members. 

And we are forbidden to give appraisals of value on the forum. 

Thanks for the response, also I've removed the valuation question. I didn't realise that was a rule, but thanks for pointing it out!

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25 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

And the Tegana Formation is not one of the Kem Kem members. 

That's interesting, thanks for the links. I thought the Tegana Formation was another name for the Kem Kem beds? I wasn't sure, as I've also seen it referred to as a subsidiary of the Kem Kem beds. 

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45 minutes ago, caldigger said:

I might be off key here, but doesn't the majority of Ken Kem material sport that classic red matrix color?

I see where you're coming from, but I think it's dependant more so on the type of material. The majority of Spinosaurus jaws I've seen from here are of a paler colouration. 

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9 hours ago, zekky said:

The teeth are placed in. They don't look right in the socket either, chance it's croc.

Yes I can see that, with the glue and sand around the socket. The jaw section looks to be Spino from the the pics to me, but I wish it were bigger as it would make me more confident. I might ask for another photo from an above view of the specimen. 

 

I know there's some really knowledgeable people on here who have a much better idea than me. The seller has qualifications in paleobiology and offers a money back guarantee on all items, but I also know there are people on this forum who in all likelihood have much more specialist knowledge on these jaws in particular. 

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Photos from the top, what do people think? The spacing, size and structure look good to me. Also notice the distinct raised ridge.

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Those teeth definitely look like they are placed in there. Tegana formation is not really informative as it's not a formation in the Kem Kem beds. The Kem Kem beds consists of three separate formations. Two of the formations hold dinosaur fossils. The Aoufous and Ifezouane formations. Though sometimes the Kem Kem beds is defined by only these last two.

The Kem Kem beds fossils can vary in colour from white, grey, beige, orange, red, dark reddish brown and even purple.

 

This is a lower jaw as can be recognised by the lip next to the composited teeth. Spinosaurus has such a lip, but some crocodiles in the Kem Kem beds also have this feature on part of their lower jaws. On Spinosaurus this feature is very pronounced. In most crocs it's generally a little more subtle of a feature, like it is here. Due to the lip not being very pronounced here I would lean towards croc.

 

Spinosaurus aegyptiacus lower jaw for reference.

Stromer1915SpinosaurusMandibleDrawings.png.5d67341cf97865ca3c98f252e7e9cf43.png

 

 

 

Pass on this one. Very likely that the teeth have been placed. Possibly croc jaw. Just not worth the risk.

Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite

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I am pretty sure from these new pics that these teeth have been cemented into the sockets. 

The jaw is probably not Spinosaurus,. 

 

Life's Good!

Tortoise Friend.

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55 minutes ago, LordTrilobite said:

Those teeth definitely look like they are placed in there. Tegana formation is not really informative as it's not a formation in the Kem Kem beds. The Kem Kem beds consists of three separate formations. Two of the formations hold dinosaur fossils. The Aoufous and Ifezouane formations. Though sometimes the Kem Kem beds is defined by only these last two.

The Kem Kem beds fossils can vary in colour from white, grey, beige, orange, red, dark reddish brown and even purple.

 

This is a lower jaw as can be recognised by the lip next to the composited teeth. Spinosaurus has such a lip, but some crocodiles in the Kem Kem beds also have this feature on part of their lower jaws. On Spinosaurus this feature is very pronounced. In most crocs it's generally a little more subtle of a feature, like it is here. Due to the lip not being very pronounced here I would lean towards croc.

 

Spinosaurus aegyptiacus lower jaw for reference.

Stromer1915SpinosaurusMandibleDrawings.png.5d67341cf97865ca3c98f252e7e9cf43.png

 

 

 

Pass on this one. Very likely that the teeth have been placed. Possibly croc jaw. Just not worth the risk.

I appreciate the detailed explanation, I've learnt something new from what you've told me. This jaw does appear very different though, to all the other croc ones I've seen. Perhaps I've just not come across croc jaws that are similar in structure to a Spino one. 

35 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

I am pretty sure from these new pics that these teeth have been cemented into the sockets. 

The jaw is probably not Spinosaurus,. 

 

Much appreciated, thanks for the response and opinion. I'm not especially knowledgeable on these, so I'll take your opinion over my own. 

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My main concern was with the jaw being that of a Spinosaurus, rather than the teeth being original to the jaw. All the real jaws I've seen that have teeth have been added afterwards, unless the teeth are unerupted. Does anyone have anything else to add? Also I'd be very interested to see comparisons between crocodile jaws that are similar to the jaw I've posted photos of, as they all look very different to me. Typically the crocodile jaws I've seen have more closely spaced roots, little or mostly no lip-ridge and different edges around the roots amongst other things. I know it's maybe subtle differences, but the defining characteristics appear to be there. I really appreciate all response so far, so a big thumbs up to you all for that! :)

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On 5/28/2018 at 11:22 AM, LordTrilobite said:

Those teeth definitely look like they are placed in there. Tegana formation is not really informative as it's not a formation in the Kem Kem beds. The Kem Kem beds consists of three separate formations. Two of the formations hold dinosaur fossils. The Aoufous and Ifezouane formations. Though sometimes the Kem Kem beds is defined by only these last two.

The Kem Kem beds fossils can vary in colour from white, grey, beige, orange, red, dark reddish brown and even purple.

 

This is a lower jaw as can be recognised by the lip next to the composited teeth. Spinosaurus has such a lip, but some crocodiles in the Kem Kem beds also have this feature on part of their lower jaws. On Spinosaurus this feature is very pronounced. In most crocs it's generally a little more subtle of a feature, like it is here. Due to the lip not being very pronounced here I would lean towards croc.

 

Spinosaurus aegyptiacus lower jaw for reference.

Stromer1915SpinosaurusMandibleDrawings.png.5d67341cf97865ca3c98f252e7e9cf43.png

 

 

 

Pass on this one. Very likely that the teeth have been placed. Possibly croc jaw. Just not worth the risk.

Lord T-

Do Moroccon croc jaws (avoiding the term 'Kem Kem')have the dimples in them, like other croc jaws?  I see none on this one.  

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2 hours ago, jpc said:

Lord T-

Do Moroccon croc jaws (avoiding the term 'Kem Kem')have the dimples in them, like other croc jaws?  I see none on this one.  

Especially on the lower jaw, some crocs can have a smoother surface. Sometimes part of the jaw has the typical dimples or roughness but in other parts the jaw can be smoother.

Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite

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Agree with LT the Jaw does not look like a spino.   See comparative one with large lip on labial side. 

SpinoJaw1.thumb.jpg.4aae7276acf24f79361e970f88c97da8.jpg

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Does someone have an illustration of the lower jaw of a croc that also shows the lip/ridge? Would be great for comparison.

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@ felix ..  here's some pics of a croc jaw from those kem kem formations (don't mind some of the teeth being glued back in, I was there when it was found and it's 100% the real thing .. I was proposed to have the teeth glued back in, and I agreed - although I paid special attention to how they did it :) )

 

 

 

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