Carcharodontosaurus Iguidensis?

[paulyb135]

Hello

 

please can you advise if the attached is a carcharodontosaurus iguidensis tooth. Been told it was found at the Echkar formation, Niger. 

 

cheers

 

Paul

[-Andy-]

I don't have high hopes, considering the seller doesn't even know that Carch isn't from the tyrannosaur family. He also misidentified several other fossils. Feels more to me like he's just trying to assign IDs for marketing sake.

 

Gotta say though - if you told me this is a tyrannosaur tooth, I would believe it.

[paulyb135]

1 minute ago, -Andy- said:

I don't have high hopes, considering the seller doesn't even know that Carch isn't from the tyrannosaur family. He also misidentified several other fossils. Feels more to me like he's just trying to assign IDs for marketing sake.

 

Gotta say though - if you told me this is a tyrannosaur tooth, I would believe it.

 

Thats a valid point. To me it does look rex like and do have my suspicions. Cool tooth though!

[paulyb135]

Another image

[paulyb135]

Does anyone else have any thoughts/inclings on what tooth this may be?

[ynot]

Well, @Troodon is on a dig, so You will have to wait for a while on His opinion.

Maybe @hxmendoza can chime in on this.

[paulyb135]

No probs. Cheers

[hxmendoza]

Looks to me like an anterior tooth from a Carcharodontosaurid. 

 

Though Carcharodontosaurus premaxillary or anterior dentary teeth aren’t officially known or described, it falls within reason, that these inflated teeth, which in almost all other respects such as serration denticle shape, and presence of crenulations adjacent to the serrations (seen in many of these but not always) are Carcharodontosaurid teeth. Carcharodontosauridae are in the Allosauroidea and should follow the pattern seen in all Allosauroidea in that the anterior dentary and premaxillary teeth become more inflated and oval to sub-oval in basal crossection. I treat the same morphology of Moroccan teeth in my collection as such; anterior Carcharodontosaurid teeth

 

Now, I can’t see any of the crenulations or enamel wrinkles normally associated with the teeth of Carcharodontosaurus, but the pics aren’t very sharp and distinct. So I have no way of knowing if they are present or not. Though, since the Carcharodontosaurus material published for both species do not have described premaxillary or anterior dentary teeth present or described, you can’t rule out if they are present in such teeth, and to what extent if so. 

 

Figured and described teeth associated with, but not found in the maxilla of C. iguidensis are the usual bladed lateral type of teeth. They do tend to show less noticeable crenulations or enamel wrinkles than those found on C. saharicus lateral teeth.

 

The described and figured anterior dentary of C. iguidensis does have large, sub-oval alveoli that would suggest the presence of inflated teeth in those sockets.

 

See photos below.

 

So if this were my tooth, I would call it: Carcharodontosauridae sp. indet.

 

I won’t go further than that though, from my perspective. 

 

Hope that helps somewhat.

Maybe when @Troodon gets back he may have more info to add.

 

P.S.- Please do not use the Sereno Carcharodontosaurus skull reconstruction as a definitive guide when looking at the teeth, or the premaxillary for that matter. 

The maxilla of the neotype is the main part of what was found of the skull along with other elements from the posterior part of the skull. The rest of the restored skull skull is all conjectural sculpted parts. They duplicated the lateral teeth and then used them as premaxillary, anterior dentary, and lateral dentary teeth. 

[Troodon]

In cell range for a while.  I agree with Hxmendoza but I would like to see better closups of the denticles to be more conclusive.

Here is a Carcharodontosaurid  from Argentina and shows laterial wrinkles and the denticles.   The other concern is the accuracy of the locality and that cannot be determined.

[paulyb135]

Thanks @Troodon and @hxmendoza for the info. Really helpful!

 

henry, I’ve sent you a video of the tooth so hopefully that gives a better idea of it. Please forward to Frank if he’d be keen to see.