Dpaul7 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Here is a nice little Ammonite from Timor. It is unpolished (the other ones I am trying to work with ARE polished). Any help is appreciated! Is it indeed Ceretite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Yes, I think it's a ceratite, may even be the genus Ceratites, though I'm far from certain. Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dpaul7 Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 Thank you, Adam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 I also would say that it's a ceratite, although I couldn't say which one. Maybe @andreas could venture an opinion again. It sure would help with the id if you could get it abraded. Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dpaul7 Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 Thank you, Ludwigia - I am happy knowing it is a ceratite! I love the patterns on it. I am learning a bit each day - hope to have a little more knowledge soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreas Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 There is a good visible suture on your ammonoid. So please look in Metalegoceratidae (Goniatitida, Ammonoidea) and compare the suture with your ammonoid. Permian age of your ammonoid is for sure. If you are unsure what genus just wrote cf. whateveryouthinkitis sp. If you are unsure what species just wrote whatitis cf. Ithinkso. This is common use in science and signals your doubts/the doubts of an author for a possible later reviewer or collector. cf. is short of latin confere what means compare to/with. In the linked work it is ranged to Goniatida not Ceratida. Therefore no "Ceratites" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dpaul7 Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 30 minutes ago, andreas said: . So please look in Metalegoceratidae (Goniatitida, Ammonoidea) and compare the suture with your ammonoid. Permian age of your ammonoid is for sure. Excellent - I have looked at the pattern, and I DO think it matches. The odd "center" pattern is there. Therefore I believe THESE fall into the same category: #1 and #2 show the pattern; #3 and #4 are the same speciment, showing different views. I think what has been confusing me is the following chart: I see the rounded suture lobes, and I think Ceratitic! The article you referenced has been a big help! Please see my next reply below; what do do here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dpaul7 Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 This ammonoid is ALSO from Timor. I really cannot see a suture pattern clearly. I can classify it to: Kingdom: Animalia Phylum: Mollusca Class: Cephalopoda Subclass: †Ammonoidea Is this about as far as I can get? Or are there other things I can look for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dpaul7 Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 17 minutes ago, doushantuo said: Many thanks! I am studying this work.... While some aspects are becoming clearer for me... others will still require more study! I guess THAT is why I am enjoying my fossils so much - It proves I AM NOT too old to learn something new! And I DO enjoy learning new things. SO many members here, and they post such interesting things. Sometimes it is a bit overwhelming... to see all of these fascinating extinct plants and animals! And so many helpful members... who are willing to teach and explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dpaul7 Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 @Ludwigia @andreas Danke vielmals! Deine Hilfe ist sehr Willkommen! Wenn ich Familie in Deutschland besuchen kann, werde ich sicher nach Fossilien jagen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 You have intellectual curiosity,Dave,and that's an asset in this world( or at least should be),but hey,who am I to tell you that Which reminds me: how do you know it's Timorese? In short,what's the provenance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dpaul7 Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, doushantuo said: You have intellectual curiosity,Dave,and that's an asset in this world( or at least should be),but hey,who am I to tell you that Which reminds me: how do you know it's Timorese? In short,what's the provenance? First, Thanks for the reference. I went to the post you mentioned; sadly the books on TImor Ammonites are not available. (I will search in Russian databases; they frequently have works I want). As for the provenance - An OLD OLD friend from high school days was our county Geologist - His wife won $8 million on the Pennsylvania Lottery - and they went into the rock & fossil business big time! They traveled the world buying - My friend bought some amazing things from them (He is well-funded!!!) This couple could be seen on a huge area of Tucson for the big show; the Tokyo show, etc. Sadly, my friend died rather suddenly a couple years ago. His wife still runs the store... All of their material is marked with location, and identnification if it was available. I had bought ONE of the polished TImor ammonoids - Then I discovered they were rather special! So I went and bought all the Polished ones that were out for display. They still have a stock of unpolished ones - very very reasonable, I think. I like Ammonites - Michael, the late owner, REALLY knew his stuff. He and his Missus traveled the world searchingt for interesting fossils & minerals... A dream job and life for them! Almost 50 years ago, Michael, myself and a couple other friends shared a host of scientific interests, fossils and geology among those interests! I love to visit there... The wife is a wonderful, pleasant lady to talk to, and she also knows quite a bit about their material! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 GREAT story,Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 About Timor: Huge, huge hydrocarbon interests at work there. Furthermore, both Portugal, and my country the Netherlands, have a colonial past to deal with(particularly Timor!!). Anything relating to the geology of the former "Dutch East Indies" is hard to get, the publisher for a lot of the Indonesian literature is Brill in Leiden, which doesn't help either. The "Palaeontology of Timor" series (PALAEONTOGRAPHICA !!) is heavily paywalled, you really have to fork out the dough if you want any of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dpaul7 Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 If the material is in Dutch. I should be able to struggle through it! The language makes me a little crazy - I keep switching between English & German in my mind... Any work in Portuguese I can read... so I will search for that also! I've seen non-Ammonite volumes in the Paleontology of Timor... yes, expensive!!!!! Some of the Russian sites do have a wide selection of material - I will be checking with them later in the day! Thankfully, I do not have to restrict myself to only English works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreas Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Dpaul7 said: If the material is in Dutch. I should be able to struggle through it! The language makes me a little crazy - I keep switching between English & German in my mind... Any work in Portuguese I can read... so I will search for that also! I've seen non-Ammonite volumes in the Paleontology of Timor... yes, expensive!!!!! Some of the Russian sites do have a wide selection of material - I will be checking with them later in the day! Thankfully, I do not have to restrict myself to only English works! I only can help you with the triassic ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Haniel, C.A. 1915 Die Cephalopoden der Dyas von Timor. Paläontologie von Timor, 3(6):1-153 Smith, J.P. 1927 Permian ammonoids of Timor. Jaarbuch van het Mijnwezen in Nederlandsch Oost Indie, 55(1):1-89 Wanner, J. 1932 Beiträge zur Paläontologie des Ostindischen Archipels, III, Zur Kenntnis der permischen Ammonoideen-fauna von Timor. Neues Jahrbuch fur Mineralogie, Geologie und Paläontologie, Abhandlungen, Abteilung B, 67(2):257-278 Gerth, H. 1950 Die Ammonoideen des Perms von Timor und ihre Bedeutung fur die stratigraphische Gliederung der Permformation. Neues Jahrbuch fur Mineralogie, Geologie und Paläontologie, Abhandlungen, Abteilung B, 91(2):233-320 Charlton, T.R., et al. 2002 The Permian of Timor: stratigraphy, palaeontology and palaeogeography. Journal of Asian Earth Sciences, 20(6):719-774 PDF LINK Leonova, T.B. 2011 Permian ammonoids: biostratigraphic, biogeographical, and ecological analysis. Paleontological Journal, 45(10):1206-1312 PDF LINK 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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