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Kem Kem Dinosaur Offerings


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These bones from the Kem Kem Beds of Morocco are being offered for sale as Spinosaurus Phalanx Toe Bones.   They appear to be carpals, hand bones, and most likely from one of the Spinosaurid's in that fauna.  Please note that I've yet to find any technical paper that describes any Spinosaurid hand bones

 

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The seller indicates only some glued and fill fractures however the excessive matrix on both these carpals might indicate otherwise.  The distal end of the carpal on the right appears to have lots of "fill"

 

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A partial Spinosaurus jawbone being offered.  In my opinion this is a Crocodile jaw.   Height to narrow and tooth sockets too far apart to be Spinosaurid.  Labial ridge also to narrow.

 

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Same comment for this one

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A big rooted Carcharodontosaurus tooth is listed with only glue filled fractures.  If you are interested, its the root that adds the big premium to the final price.

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My concern is with all the fill on the root, outlined in white, and in the end how much of the real root is present.   

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Boy does this seller really need a lesson or two.... One of these days I’m going to post the certificate they send ( I’ll cross out the name).  Everything is nice, organized, holographic seal...all to see this this stuff :doh!: coa’s don’t mean anything

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47 minutes ago, Masp said:

Boy does this seller really need a lesson or two.... One of these days I’m going to post the certificate they send ( I’ll cross out the name).  Everything is nice, organized, holographic seal...all to see this this stuff :doh!: coa’s don’t mean anything

Well he does have some real nice material you just have to ignore the description but that is true for most suppliers.  

COA by any sellers is a worthless document.

 

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I fear that someday Morocco will simply slide into the sea if they keep exporting all their sand like this. :) 

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43 minutes ago, DSMJake said:

I fear that someday Morocco will simply slide into the sea if they keep exporting all their sand like this. :) 

:dinothumb:

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6 hours ago, Troodon said:

A big rooted Carcharodontosaurus tooth is listed with only glue filled fractures.  If you are interested, its the root that adds the big premium to the final price.

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My concern is with all the fill on the root, outlined in white, and in the end how much of the real root is present.   

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I hope people are really careful when they think about buying rooted teeth from Morocco. It's getting kind of ridiculous out there. I've probably seen more rooted teeth for sale in the last two months then I have in the last 20 years! It's not just Carch  and Spino teeth now, I'm also seeing a lot of rooted Rebbachisaurus teeth. These are not real roots, just a bunch of glue and sand as you've said. Look at Troodons rooted teeth and then compare them to what's for sale now before you buy anything.

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10 hours ago, Troodon said:

A partial Spinosaurus jawbone being offered.  In my opinion this is a Crocodile jaw.   Height to narrow and tooth sockets too far apart to be Spinosaurid.  Labial ridge also to narrow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, also the coronoids positioning relative to the tooth sockets appears to be more crocodilian.

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Dracorex_hogwartsia said:

hope people are really careful when they think about buying rooted teeth from Morocco. It's getting kind of ridiculous out there. I've probably seen more rooted teeth for sale in the last two months then I have in the last 20 years! It's not just Carch  and Spino teeth now, I'm also seeing a lot of rooted Rebbachisaurus teeth. These are not real roots, just a bunch of glue and sand as you've said. Look at Troodons rooted teeth and then compare them to what's for sale now before you buy anything.

I think its a reflection of the european sellers who have recently stepped into this market and have a good Moroccan source.  They also try to repair/restore material in a less obvious way than local Moroccan sellers which makes it more difficult for most collectors to see.   Again they do have, at times, wonderful offerings that have not been available before so IF one exercises caution there are neat items to pick up.  I strongly suggest to everyone to post your interests here and see what others say.  

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Actually got a couple pieces from said seller. It’s hit or miss as you stated @Troodon. They also have several names they use on that site. Depending on the profile they sell the better stuff. For example profile 2 sells the heavily restored stuff while profile 3 sells the almost museum like quality stuff. 

 

I have a really nice notidanodon lower and a few carcharadontosaurus in superb quality. I also have a carch tooth where half of it’s fill. 

 

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If I flip the tooth on the far right it’s almost all fill on the opposite size

 

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I bought a couple Carcharodontosaurus teeth from this seller.  I'm only a very casual fossil collector at the moment, and only have these, a spino tooth, a elasmosaur tooth, and a mosasaur tooth, plus a handful of trilobytes.  But, I was excited to discover I could get a large carnivore dino tooth without shelling out T-Rex prices!  I "think" I did alright on these teeth.  Seems like the restorations are fairly minimal on these, but I'm not yet the best at spotting the less obvious.  I do know the root ends of the teeth have that glue sand mix that seems so prevalent on fossils. But, I'm not as much of a purist as most of you guys yet.  :)  I'm pretty happy with these unless I just totally missed something and made a newbie mistake somewhere.

 

As the seller goes, I know he has an account on the forum and has posted a few things.  He seems to do his best to describe things accurately, and seems to have more nicer things than a lot of sellers I see out there. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, avenger said:

I bought a couple Carcharodontosaurus teeth from this seller.  I'm only a very casual fossil collector at the moment, and only have these, a spino tooth, a elasmosaur tooth, and a mosasaur tooth, plus a handful of trilobytes.  But, I was excited to discover I could get a large carnivore dino tooth without shelling out T-Rex prices!  I "think" I did alright on these teeth.  Seems like the restorations are fairly minimal on these, but I'm not yet the best at spotting the less obvious.  I do know the root ends of the teeth have that glue sand mix that seems so prevalent on fossils. But, I'm not as much of a purist as most of you guys yet.  :)  I'm pretty happy with these unless I just totally missed something and made a newbie mistake somewhere.

 

As the seller goes, I know he has an account on the forum and has posted a few things.  He seems to do his best to describe things accurately, and seems to have more nicer things than a lot of sellers I see out there

 

Thanks for sharing your experience

The bottom tooth looks great and a beautiful addition to you collection.

The top rooted one does have a lot of fill in the root area.  Ive marked the areas, could be more but at least you know what you have.  Hard to say how much is real.  The crown is great.

 

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That's fill?  Man, I need to learn how to spot it.  The areas you circled have a grain to them, similar to what you'd see on wood, and kind of resembles the grain in the crown.  I would have expected the areas that aren't circled to be the one's that might be fill.  You can see the texture in the picture where I show its length.  I'm sure you're right, I don't know about these things.  But, what's the giveaway on those, or what do I need to look for?  

 

Ha, I thought $100 was too cheap on that tooth.  But, I also didn't know rooted teeth were that much more sought after until a couple days ago, and more or less bought it for the crown since that's the part I personally enjoy.

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16 minutes ago, avenger said:

That's fill?  Man, I need to learn how to spot it.  The areas you circled have a grain to them, similar to what you'd see on wood, and kind of resembles the grain in the crown.  I would have expected the areas that aren't circled to be the one's that might be fill.  You can see the texture in the picture where I show its length.  I'm sure you're right, I don't know about these things.  But, what's the giveaway on those, or what do I need to look for?  

 

Ha, I thought $100 was too cheap on that tooth.  But, I also didn't know rooted teeth were that much more sought after until a couple days ago, and more or less bought it for the crown since that's the part I personally enjoy.

Ha ha you should not see any grain in the roots but more of an enamel surface. They are hard to find since the root area is very fragile why you see lots of repair on them.  A complete tooth includes the root why some collectors seek them out.   Lots of collectors also just focus on crowns, all good whatever turns you on.  Don't hesitate to post any purchase concerns before you buy.  Great hobby and you are correct Moroccan teeth are not budget breaker.

 

 

Example of Carcharodontosaurids with roots to see what they look like

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Well there you go then!  Thanks for that info Troodon. I see what you're saying to look for now that I've had a chance to compare my fossil to those you posted, and the images you provided.  And, I do kind of favor the crown I guess.  That was after all, the business end of the tooth. :)

 

I looked that guy over armed with that info, and the sides look like root, and the front and back appear to be restored where you've circled, with I think the exception of the smaller area on your second image.  I think the photo may betray that smaller area, as it has a look consistent with the other uncircled areas on inspection.  Here's the sides as best as I could photograph them.  I'll post images here in the future I guess.  I honestly wasn't terribly concerned about the root and focused on the crown when I bought it.  So, I guess in the end I still have what I bought it for.  And, it clearly has some root, so i guess whatever we can glean about the tooth's fate from that is still there too.

 

Thanks again! I'm definitely learning a thing or two, and I know information doesn't come without a cost to someone along the line of sharing it.  So, I appreciate it.

 

 

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The root looks like lots of fill but I'm pleased you are happy with those crowns and they are indeed the business end.    Part of collecting is learning and that never stops no matter how much you think you know.   

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2 hours ago, Troodon said:

Ha ha you should not see any grain in the roots but more of an enamel surface. They are hard to find since the root area is very fragile why you see lots of repair on them.  A complete tooth includes the root why some collectors seek them out.   Lots of collectors also just focus on crowns, all good whatever turns you on.  Don't hesitate to post any purchase concerns before you buy.  Great hobby and you are correct Moroccan teeth are not budget breaker.

 

 

Example of Carcharodontosaurids with roots to see what they look like

CarchT1a.thumb.jpg.82389865f69cf541c4a0332b32f50f30.jpg

These are great examples of what a real root looks like. I hope people that are thinking about buying a rooted Moroccan tooth will take a close look at these examples and compare them to what they're thinking about buying. The sad reality though is that almost every rooted Moroccan tooth you see now is either completely fake or heavily restored. I would just stick to buying really nice crowns. Forget the roots unless you can find one like Troodons but then expect to pay thousands for it. Real rooted teeth are not cheap.

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Lots of different spino teeth with roots are being offered. Please exercise caution lots of fill and resto with teeth Spinosaurus being offered .  Photos show 3 different offerings.

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Museum quality dorsal vertebra being offered from a Carcharodontosaurus.  Looks more like Croc and there appears to be fill around some of the processes.

 

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Museum grade Spinosaurus toe with claw being offered.  What you have is a Spinosaurid foot claw with a carpal, hand, bone.  The back end of the claw looks funny may have some fill, blood groove looks fabricated.

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A number of teeth being offered as Dromaeosaur raptor teeth.  Two examples are shown below.  Did not see any that would qualify as Dromaeosaurid like or raptors, most are juvie Carch or Abelsaurid.    Be cautious and post interest here before you buy.

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 @Troodon How much of this spinosaurid tooth is fabricated?

 

 And then in the second set of pictures the seller claims it’s Albelisaurid , I think it’s in rough shape but is it Carc? 

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