Please tell me this is not coquina

[Plantguy]

5 hours ago, ynot said:

From wikipedia....

Coquina (/koʊˈkiːnə/) is a sedimentary rock that is composed either wholly or almost entirely of the transported, abraded, and mechanically-sorted fragments of the shells of molluscs, trilobites, brachiopods, or other invertebrates.[1][2] The term coquina comes from the Spanish word for "cockle" and "shellfish".[3]

For a sediment to be considered to be a coquina, the particles composing it should average 2 mm (0.079 in) or greater in size. Coquina can vary in hardness from poorly to moderately cemented. Incompletely consolidated and poorly-cemented coquinas are considered grainstones in the Dunham classification system for carbonate sedimentary rocks.[4] A well-cemented coquina is classified as a biosparite according to the Folk classification of sedimentary rocks.[5]

Coquinas accumulate in high-energy marine and lacustrine environments where currents and waves result in the vigorous winnowing, abrasion, fracturing, and sorting of the shells, which compose them. As a result, they typically exhibit well-developed bedding or cross-bedding, close packing, and good orientation of the shell fragments. The high-energy marine or lacustrine environments associated with coquinas include beaches, shallow submarine raised banks, swift tidal channels, and barrier bars.[5][6]

 

 

 

Nice Tony! I was bugging Roger Portell about some examples I had and a definition cause there is tons of the stuff down here in all shapes/forms. 

 

Regards, Chris 

[Plantguy]

3 hours ago, BuddingPaleo said:

Oh, for sure. I've started cleaning some of the debris (Broken hand, slow going) Tonight I'm going to look up info on oyster beds/colonies. May be an oyster rave goin on out there.

Thats a really nice oyster and as the others have said it appears to have at least 2 valves! I suspect it is one of the Hyotissa's but maybe not...

 

For reference here's a look at some of the ones I cleaned up from Sarasota County...I separated the valves in the 1st multi-photo and in the 2nd photo I left two specimens with the valves attached to show what they look in the side view. In the 3rd multiphoto here's another big guy to show you how crazy thick just the one valve is and the muscle scar on the inside. Sometimes if you soak them for awhile before hand they can actually take a light blasting with the hose in the yard without destroying them and it goes pretty quick. Good luck with the prep...hoping its fairly soft and is an easy cleanup...keep the matrix you strip away..sometimes you find some other goodies in the stuff. 

 

Continued hunting success. 

Regards, Chris 

[BuddingPaleo]

1 hour ago, Plantguy said:

Thats a really nice oyster and as the others have said it appears to have at least 2 valves! I suspect it is one of the Hyotissa's but maybe not...

 

For reference here's a look at some of the ones I cleaned up from Sarasota County...I separated the valves in the 1st multi-photo and in the 2nd photo I left two specimens with the valves attached to show what they look in the side view. In the 3rd multiphoto here's another big guy to show you how crazy thick just the one valve is and the muscle scar on the inside. Sometimes if you soak them for awhile before hand they can actually take a light blasting with the hose in the yard without destroying them and it goes pretty quick. Good luck with the prep...hoping its fairly soft and is an easy cleanup...keep the matrix you strip away..sometimes you find some other goodies in the stuff. 

 

Continued hunting success. 

Regards, Chris 

Yes! My yard is FULL of that! When I read about layered/compacted shells, I was confused. This didn't look like anything i saw online for it, but since there are other things stuck to it, I accepted it as coquina, but it never sat right. That was why I felt the need to ask. 

I found out quickly they're pretty hardy to a hose, but was afraid to soak them for any length submerged. 

I'm having a really hard time deciding what's native to the oyster and what's not, but the matrix is like packed baby powder mostly, with few well cemented bits. Lucky there! 

Should I separate them? I feel like I should leave it closed.

Your insight is so very very appreciated. You rock. 

*always keep my dirt. I sift it before I pitch it. Lots of fish scales, teeth. Nifty bits. 

[Plax]

21 hours ago, BuddingPaleo said:

I've googled it, nothing I googled looks like a lot of what I've got, so since I'm *just* started and am trying to learn, I figured I would double check, because I'm obviously having trouble telling between the two. I have no one else to check with. 

Dear Budding Paleo. I meant google the terms such as "coquina". Ynot has done that and given us the dictionary definition of coquina. Your fossil is without a doubt (to me) an oyster in limestone. Finding out about fossils leads us down a path of esoteric words and was trying to encourage your research methods. I can certainly see your frustration when you google "fossil oyster in limestone" and get so many choices none of which match your specimen precisely.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fossil+oyster+in+limestone&client=firefox-b-1&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=zBJ7p7t2RiFL4M%3A%2CweN04Apuu4UF6M%2C_&usg=__hKKCxx6cHdDYWiej3O5qZUhf-z0%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZqN_ypOLbAhVLcq0KHXq-BwcQ9QEIKTAA#imgrc=zBJ7p7t2RiFL4M:

[Plax]

21 hours ago, Rockwood said:

 

 

There appears to be a bit of disagreement between two very learned folks here. Tells you something about the task ahead. 

I think we agree Rockwood! Depends on the degree of definition

[BuddingPaleo]

6 minutes ago, Plax said:

Dear Budding Paleo. I meant google the terms such as "coquina". Ynot has done that and given us the dictionary definition of coquina. Your fossil is without a doubt (to me) an oyster in limestone. Finding out about fossils leads us down a path of esoteric words and was trying to encourage your research methods. I can certainly see your frustration when you google "fossil oyster in limestone" and get so many choices none of which match your specimen precisely.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fossil+oyster+in+limestone&client=firefox-b-1&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=zBJ7p7t2RiFL4M%3A%2CweN04Apuu4UF6M%2C_&usg=__hKKCxx6cHdDYWiej3O5qZUhf-z0%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZqN_ypOLbAhVLcq0KHXq-BwcQ9QEIKTAA#imgrc=zBJ7p7t2RiFL4M:

It's so hard. Lol it was the definition of coquina that confused me too, the one I found anyway. When it talked about the shells being layered and compacted, the other ones I've found had no visible "lip" so it looked like layered, compressed shell. When I saw the split in this one, it gave me pause. I really wish I could take classes, but you all are so amazing and are a great help. I've started taking notes with my big girl words too, so that helps! Googling coquina is a rabbit hole, it showed me countertops...

[Rockwood]

3 hours ago, Plax said:

I think we agree Rockwood! Depends on the degree of definition

It's sort of like the length of the Maine coast line. The exact answer would be needed by a limited number of people anyway.  

[Rockwood]

3 hours ago, BuddingPaleo said:

Googling coquina is a rabbit hole, it showed me countertops...

Try fossil if you need a watch. 

[BuddingPaleo]

2 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Try fossil if you need a watch. 

 Been there too!  Lol They need a science based google...

[Miocene_Mason]

27 minutes ago, BuddingPaleo said:

 Been there too!  Lol They need a science based google...

Your wish is my command!  BAM!

[BuddingPaleo]

2 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said:

Your wish is my command!  BAM!

I love you! Best gift ever!

[Miocene_Mason]

5 minutes ago, BuddingPaleo said:

I love you! Best gift ever!

No problem, thank Google for it’s wonderul algorithms (or whatever it uses to make it work).

[sixgill pete]

Coquina takes on many different "faces" it can take on different looks. Sometimes it is all bivalves, crushed and broken; no complete valves. Sometimes it has complete shells or other items. But often if the items are complete, they are crushed and separated. The entire shell or item is there but it has cracks or is in a few pieces. 

 

Here is some from a Pleistocene site here in N.C. It has an entire crushed Rhyncholampas sabistonensis in it.

 

  

 

Here is another piece from a Pliocene spot, it has an entire Mellita sp. echinoid in it. It looks more like limestone rock, but it has fine ground shells in it.

 

 

 

 

[BuddingPaleo]

Those are beautiful! So I do have a good bit of that too, then. What is the stuff that has all whole pieces, if a bit eroded? You can pull em out like you're clam digging in stone. Like chunks of reef life shoved together and upside down then turned to stone. That would not fit your description of coquina. See? Confusing...lol

[sixgill pete]

33 minutes ago, BuddingPaleo said:

Those are beautiful! So I do have a good bit of that too, then. What is the stuff that has all whole pieces, if a bit eroded? You can pull em out like you're clam digging in stone. Like chunks of reef life shoved together and upside down then turned to stone. That would not fit your description of coquina. See? Confusing...lol

It could be the remnants of an old reef, like these pics of a Cretaceous oyster reef uncovered here in N.C. t, it could be coquina. Like I said it has many different looks.

 

  

 

[BuddingPaleo]

Y'know, that's close. Add in barnacles, coral and other clams, (and grass) I'd say that's pretty darn close. I tried to look that up a while back, but couldn't find anything. Thanks. 

[Plax]

13 hours ago, sixgill pete said:

It could be the remnants of an old reef, like these pics of a Cretaceous oyster reef uncovered here in N.C. t, it could be coquina. Like I said it has many different looks.

 

  

 

would like to have that one in my yard!

 

[BuddingPaleo]

Mine's more eroded, I wish it was that pristine! I have to guess what might be a good puller, trying not to destroy the lawn in the process. I've got 0 fossils where I wouldn't care, they're all right up front...

[sixgill pete]

11 hours ago, Plax said:

would like to have that one in my yard!

 

It's not far from being there!!

[Plantguy]

On 6/19/2018 at 8:39 PM, BuddingPaleo said:

Yes! My yard is FULL of that! When I read about layered/compacted shells, I was confused. This didn't look like anything i saw online for it, but since there are other things stuck to it, I accepted it as coquina, but it never sat right. That was why I felt the need to ask. 

I found out quickly they're pretty hardy to a hose, but was afraid to soak them for any length submerged. 

I'm having a really hard time deciding what's native to the oyster and what's not, but the matrix is like packed baby powder mostly, with few well cemented bits. Lucky there! 

Should I separate them? I feel like I should leave it closed.

Your insight is so very very appreciated. You rock. 

*always keep my dirt. I sift it before I pitch it. Lots of fish scales, teeth. Nifty bits. 

Just my personal preference but I'm all for keeping specimens in matrix if possible and keeping valves together but I think I'm in the minority. For identification purposes that sometimes makes it difficult to get to a species level ID as you might hide some of the key characteristics of the fossil. Oysters are so variable in form its difficult at times to get an ID anyways. If you got a yard full I'd try cleaning up several examples and then maybe tackle separating the valves on the easiest one. 

 

Similar to Pete's nice collection of stuff here's a small block of barnacles and oysters for comparison to shows you what goofy stuff I've decided to keep: 

 

Good luck which ever route you choose to go with....Regards, Chris 

[BuddingPaleo]

I like that piece. Lots of interesting bits and bobs, keep you interested for a long time! I think I've removed all of the matrix from "Harvey" (I name all of my good fossils) that I'm comfortable with at my skill level. I'm going to practice on some small broken pieces to get a feel for the different sediments and learn the layer structure look and feel. I'll revisit him later. I can't put anything back, but I can always reassess later, right? Thanks for the help, and opinion! 

17 hours ago, Plantguy said:

Just my personal preference but I'm all for keeping specimens in matrix if possible and keeping valves together but I think I'm in the minority. For identification purposes that sometimes makes it difficult to get to a species level ID as you might hide some of the key characteristics of the fossil. Oysters are so variable in form its difficult at times to get an ID anyways. If you got a yard full I'd try cleaning up several examples and then maybe tackle separating the valves on the easiest one. 

 

Similar to Pete's nice collection of stuff here's a small block of barnacles and oysters for comparison to shows you what goofy stuff I've decided to keep: 

 

Good luck which ever route you choose to go with....Regards, Chris 

 

[Plax]

On 6/21/2018 at 9:06 PM, sixgill pete said:

It's not far from being there!!

had a feeling!