FossilDAWG Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 A couple of weeks ago I stopped by Blue Banks, just north of Purse State Park MD. The Paleocene Aquia Formation is exposed there, and teeth and bones of a variety of species erode from the exposures and accumulate in gravel along the shore. Unfortunately the Potomac River was in flood stage, so the gravel along the shore was submerged despite the low tide. A driving rain storm did not help matters. I scooped gravel and passed it through a couple of screens, and recovered a handful of the usual small sand tigers and ray teeth, before calling it quits after an hour or so. The following was the largest tooth I collected by some margin. I don't see anything like it on Elasmo.com. There are no serrations and no cusps. Any suggestions for an ID would be most welcome. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Looks much like a Carcharodon hastalis to Me, but I do not know the age of that formation. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Hi Don and Tony, Yeah, I'm thinking it's a much younger tooth, C. hastalis as Tony noted, that got washed into the gravel from somewhere else. I think I've heard of people finding Miocene teeth on the Potomac. Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I've seen site contamination at this location before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerratedTeeth Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I would agree with @ynot and @siteseer. Definitely looks like a C. Hastalis tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 38 minutes ago, Gizmo said: I've seen site contamination at this location before. What is the chance that there is a pocket of Miocene nearby, contributing to the mix? I know that the general dip/strike suggests that to be unlikely, but... "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 29 minutes ago, Auspex said: What is the chance that there is a pocket of Miocene nearby, contributing to the mix? I know that the general dip/strike suggests that to be unlikely, but... A possibility, also native american middens nearby. It's a heavily collected site with many people coming over from Calvert Cliffs carrying Miocene fossils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 33 minutes ago, Auspex said: What is the chance that there is a pocket of Miocene nearby, contributing to the mix? I know that the general dip/strike suggests that to be unlikely, but... 4 minutes ago, Gizmo said: A possibility, also native american middens nearby. Or it could have been dropped by a collector (intentionally or accidentally). Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 The most common scenario is a parent bringing teeth to insure a successful hunt for a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 22 minutes ago, Gizmo said: The most common scenario is a parent bringing teeth to insure a successful hunt for a child. Which muddies the water for serious collectors. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I’ve found a Miocene lemon tooth here. Must be seeders. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 My first impression was also that it has a mako-ish aspect. Certainly there is always the possibility of contamination from someone dumping out a collecting bag or some other shenanigans. "Salting" for kids is also always an unpleasant possibility, but this tooth is not all that large (note scale is in cm not inches) or impressive, certainly not more so than many of the Striatolamia that are common at the site. I was wondering if anything along the lines of Macrorhizodus praecursor/M. americana (which I have collected from Eocene outcrops in Georgia) occurs in the Paleocene, or in the Lower Eocene Nanjemoy Formation which is present nearby. Also Elasmo.com mentions that Isurolamia lower anteriors lack cusps, but this tooth position is apparently not illustrated. Just wondering when the transition from Cretalamna to uncusped Mako-type teeth occurred. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 37 minutes ago, Gizmo said: The most common scenario is a parent bringing teeth to insure a successful hunt for a child. I was hoping that this was not that widespread... "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, FossilDAWG said: Macrorhizodus praecursor Very rarely present according to some sources I believe, but this has too much “shoulder” in my opinion. It’s also not the type of preservation you’d expect from Purse but very typical of Miocene sites. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 There is Xiphodolamia ensis, but the root is wrong. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 @MarcoSr Any ideas on this? Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Auspex said: There is Xiphodolamia ensis, but the root is wrong. Blade isn’t “bendy” enough either. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said: Very rarely present according to some sources I believe, but this has too much “shoulder” in my opinion. It’s also not the type of preservation you’d expect from Purse but very typical of Miocene sites. I agree it's not a M. praecursor/americanus, I'm just wondering what came between the cusped Cretalamna lineage and the uncusped mako line, and when that happened. The color balance is a little off in the photos. The preservation, to me, seems to be not different than several of the teeth I have from Purse. Of course, I can also point to teeth from Brownies that seem to have similar preservation as well. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 22 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said: Blade isn’t “bendy” enough either. That could vary greatly by tooth position, but yeah, it's clearly not X. ensis just by the root. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Auspex said: I was hoping that this was not that widespread... Not a rare occurrence here by any means. Reported and documented at Monument Rocks in Kansas were handfuls of small Miocene teeth were scattered causing much confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Gizmo said: Not a rare occurrence here by any means. Reported and documented at Monument Rocks in Kansas were handfuls of small Miocene teeth were scattered causing much confusion. I remember a thread here about a hemi found in Arkona, Canada. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 4 hours ago, ynot said: Which muddies the water for serious collectors. There's no thought or care given to that issue. Then there's this- https://eatsleepplaybeaufort.com/shark-tooth-hunt-draws-thousands-to-the-sands/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 9 hours ago, ynot said: @MarcoSr Any ideas on this? Blue Banks is zone 2 of the Piscataway member of the Palaeocene Aquia Formation. The Miocene exposures are far downriver from this site. The Eocene Nanjemoy Formation exposures are downriver of this site. Miocene hastalis teeth are not washing upriver. On very rare occasions Cretaceous teeth wash downriver to this site but they are black and reworked so I don't think the tooth could be a Cretoxyrhina mantelli. In forty five years collecting the Aquia I've never seen a tooth that looks like this tooth from that formation. To me it is 100% a contaminant. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 Thanks Marco Sr, Gizmo, Whodaman, ynot, and Auspex. A contaminant it is. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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