Jump to content
ynot

Unidentified Sharktooth Hill nano tooth.

Recommended Posts

ynot

Found these while searching some of the very fine matrix from Sharktooth hill.

My first thought was a cusp from a shark tooth, but they have no damage other than no root.

Had a couple of other thoughts, but they did not fit either.

This left Me with fish tooth as the most likely candidate.

Please help to deny or confirm this idea.

Scale in millimeters.

5b3a96875bca0_nano2-0001.png.644828609bafadea10768f0af3c34daa.png5b3a968d9f0b5_nano2-0002.png.a4916d78faa5fa05d9371a7336885d39.png5b3a969d892be_nano2-0003.png.11d0ac0fde4c7860e51dfae13eecdcda.png5b3a96a4bf6e9_nano2-0004.png.63bbae72c1640b4c4608e2d5b76f1f4a.png5b3a96ba1863e_nano2-0005.png.c91efb44faa7568f09f0c953fa1f902f.png5b3a96d105182_nano2-0006.png.b9525a7b4f4a46c5b52306df085fdbf7.png5b3a96daf3c97_nano2-0007.png.4299f264717acfd837e24ed6a083ab0b.png5b3a96e74e43a_nano2-0008.png.9efeea9b5553036212c2c074419bbb4d.png

 

Thanks for any help,

Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Al Dente

They might be Heterodontus anterior teeth but I haven’t seen any that were an exact match with your teeth. There are some bony fish that have multi-cusp teeth but they are almost microscopic. Here are some modern tetra teeth that I found on the web.

90411D98-0374-4785-A73B-B2E7E97D57CB.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
siteseer

Hi Tony,

 

They look like tiny strainer-type teeth.  They remind me of crab-eater seal teeth except that the smaller cusps are blunter.  I considered them being dermal denticles but they do look more like teeth broken off near the base.  I'm thinking some kind of bony fish too.

 

Jess

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
old bones

Those are really neat,Tony. I am going to keep an eye out for them when I get back into STH matrix. I sure hope that you get an ID.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
caldigger

I've gone through quite a bit of that matrix myself and have never found the likes of that. Cool finds Tony!

Just goes to show, there is always something unexpected to find in matrix.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ynot
7 hours ago, Al Dente said:

They might be Heterodontus anterior teeth but I haven’t seen any that were an exact match with your teeth. There are some bony fish that have multi-cusp teeth but they are almost microscopic. Here are some modern tetra teeth that I found on the web.

Thanks Al.

Can not see these as Heterodontus. They are very flat with a slight curve shape (like a glove).

The larger one is 2 millimeters long.

 

6 hours ago, siteseer said:

Hi Tony,

 

They look like tiny strainer-type teeth.  They remind me of crab-eater seal teeth except that the smaller cusps are blunter.  I considered them being dermal denticles but they do look more like teeth broken off near the base.  I'm thinking some kind of bony fish too.

 

Jess

Thanks Jess.

That is the only thing I can think of.

 

5 hours ago, old bones said:

Those are really neat,Tony. I am going to keep an eye out for them when I get back into STH matrix. I sure hope that you get an ID.

Thanks Julianna.

These would be in the fine stuff I recently sent You, not the regular matrix. (at least that is where I found these two.)

 

58 minutes ago, caldigger said:

I've gone through quite a bit of that matrix myself and have never found the likes of that. Cool finds Tony!

Just goes to show, there is always something unexpected to find in matrix.

 

Thanks Doren.

I can understand that because these were found in the stuff that went through a window screen. I found none in the regular matrix either. 

It is amazing what can be found in the fine sand.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Al Dente
4 hours ago, ynot said:

Thanks Al.

Can not see these as Heterodontus. They are very flat with a slight curve shape (like a glove).

The larger one is 2 millimeters long.

Here are a couple examples of juvenile Heterodontus teeth that I have found in the Cretaceous Peedee Formation. They are about the same size as your examples.

heterodontus juvenile.jpg

Heterodontus granti.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ynot
3 hours ago, Al Dente said:

They are about the same size as your examples.

The labial / lingual thickness of Your examples is markedly larger than in My unknowns.

Notice the bottom right picture which shows the side view of the larger tooth.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnBrewer
21 hours ago, ynot said:

Found these while searching some of the very fine matrix from Sharktooth hill.

My first thought was a cusp from a shark tooth, but they have no damage other than no root.

Had a couple of other thoughts, but they did not fit either.

This left Me with fish tooth as the most likely candidate.

Please help to deny or confirm this idea.

Scale in millimeters.

5b3a96875bca0_nano2-0001.png.644828609bafadea10768f0af3c34daa.png5b3a968d9f0b5_nano2-0002.png.a4916d78faa5fa05d9371a7336885d39.png5b3a969d892be_nano2-0003.png.11d0ac0fde4c7860e51dfae13eecdcda.png5b3a96a4bf6e9_nano2-0004.png.63bbae72c1640b4c4608e2d5b76f1f4a.png5b3a96ba1863e_nano2-0005.png.c91efb44faa7568f09f0c953fa1f902f.png5b3a96d105182_nano2-0006.png.b9525a7b4f4a46c5b52306df085fdbf7.png5b3a96daf3c97_nano2-0007.png.4299f264717acfd837e24ed6a083ab0b.png5b3a96e74e43a_nano2-0008.png.9efeea9b5553036212c2c074419bbb4d.png

 

Thanks for any help,

Tony

Looks like a rock to me Tony. Chert maybe covered in sandstone agate :rofl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ynot
1 minute ago, JohnBrewer said:

Looks like a rock to me Tony. Chert maybe covered in sandstone agate :rofl:

It is fairy carved carnelian and was carved to be a rooster's cockscomb cover (for microscopic fairy roosters).:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ynot

So does anyone else have any opinions on these strange things?

 

@MarcoSr, @digit, @sixgill pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
digit

My initial thought was shark dermal denticles (the size would be about right). Doing some image searches for them in the Round Mountain Silt turned up an older article from TFF for comparison:

 

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/63433-shark-denticles/

 

Looking at these, your specimens do not seem to have the attachment base (nor evidence that they ever had one which broke off). I'm now kinda in the small non-shark fish tooth camp.

 

Will wait to see if we have any better guesses that lead to the proper ID. Great find in the ultra-micros, Tony!

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MarcoSr

Tony

 

Really neat specimens.  My first thought was immature Heterodontus anterior teeth but I agree with Eric that your specimens don't exactly match any that I've seen before.  My next thought was placoid scales but they are usually less than 1 millimeter and again your specimens don't exactly match any that I've seen before.  My last thought was fish teeth but again your specimens don't match any that I've seen before.

 

Marco Sr.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
digit

Do we know anybody from any institution that has exhaustively documented the micros that can be found in the Round Mountain Silt? Possibly someone at the Buena Vista Museum of Natural History & Science? It seems to be a smaller boutique museum run by volunteers but they may be in contact with specialists who they could refer.

 

http://www.sharktoothhill.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=menu&menu_id=7

 

 

These specimens being so tiny are not even on the radar of those looking for the larger teeth at STH and are probably so small that they are passing through the sieves of those looking for micros.

 

I love it when big finds come from looking small.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ynot
20 minutes ago, MarcoSr said:

Tony

 

Really neat specimens.  My first thought was immature Heterodontus anterior teeth but I agree with Eric that your specimens don't exactly match any that I've seen before.  My next thought was placoid scales but they are usually less than 1 millimeter and again your specimens don't exactly match any that I've seen before.  My last thought was fish teeth but again your specimens don't match any that I've seen before.

 

Marco Sr.

That is pretty close to My line of thinking on these. (I checked on ratfish teeth too, but found nothing close.)

 

23 minutes ago, digit said:

Do we know anybody from any institution that has exhaustively documented the micros that can be found in the Round Mountain Silt? Possibly someone at the Buena Vista Museum of Natural History & Science? It seems to be a smaller boutique museum run by volunteers but they may be in contact with specialists who they could refer.

Good idea, I will give it a try (later).

I agree that TFF needs a good ichthyologist in it's membership.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sixgill pete

Tony I'm afraid I cannot be of any help with these. My first gut feeling was juvenile heterodontus also, but I agree they are not quite right. Like some of the others I too lean towards fish. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
siteseer
4 hours ago, digit said:

Do we know anybody from any institution that has exhaustively documented the micros that can be found in the Round Mountain Silt? Possibly someone at the Buena Vista Museum of Natural History & Science? It seems to be a smaller boutique museum run by volunteers but they may be in contact with specialists who they could refer.

 

http://www.sharktoothhill.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=menu&menu_id=7

 

 

These specimens being so tiny are not even on the radar of those looking for the larger teeth at STH and are probably so small that they are passing through the sieves of those looking for micros.

 

I love it when big finds come from looking small.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

Hi Ken,

 

There really isn't anyone who has published anything on the micros.  In fact no one has even done a review of the STH fauna in the way the Lee Creek volumes have done.  Elasmo.com is about the fullest review of the sharks and rays since Shelton Applegate provided a faunal list within "History of Research at Sharktooth Hill, Kern County, California" (Mitchell, 1965).  That book didn't have many illustrations of the fossils - certainly none of the micros - but that wasn't the aim either.  Applegate passed away in 2005, I believe.

 

However, that doesn't mean there's nobody left experienced enough to provide an educated opinion, someone with paleontological experience as well as at least a familiarity with modern fishes of the west coast.  I can think of two people.  Richard Huddleston who's at the Los Angeles County Museum of Natural History and Bruce Welton who was there in the early 80's and "cut his teeth" on STH sharks before concentrating on his main job as a geologist (now retired and going back to writing up old projects like naming the STH basking shark - Welton, 2014).  There's also Gary Takeuchi at LA County.  Another "fish guy" is Mark Roeder in Orange County.  He's done a lot of paleo-salvage and has published on fishes.  I met him in the mid-90's on the Ernst Property.  Bob Ernst gave him permission to collect on his property because he was collecting and washing matrix for school projects, bringing concentrate for kids to sort through, learning from him about science along the way

 

Jess

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×