Still_human Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 So, can anyone shatter my dreams with THIS one? Lol no, I'm really extremely appreciative of the help Ive been getting with questionable fossils, and the chance to learn important and helpful information! the description says it all...this is supposed to be a tyrannosaurus fibula fragment. Seems legit to me, but I could definitely use other opinions. This is a hell creeker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 Also, do these look like predation marks? It's the only one and there don't appear to be any scratches or gouges accompanying it anywhere, just this one not very toothy looking indentation/crater. It's not claimed to have predation, and the mark isn't even mentioned, I was just wondering what it might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 My gut says that it is more likely to be a hadrosaur and it even looks like it might have been bored out a bit to supply it with the required hollow interior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 Really? Look at the last of the first group of pictures. I can say it's definitely genuinely hollowed out. See all the spongey network of bone on the inside? It's black on black somit might be hard to see...lemme see if I can get a better view for u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 In the first pic u can see it on both sides, although only the left side is focused:/ and the 2nd pic isn't clear, but u can see through the opposite side that there are little delicate things sticking out on the inner surface those are definitely trex qualities. Although could be on other types of hell creek dinos too, but it definitely includes the spongy tissue that I know trexes have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Tyrannosaurus bones like all Theropods have hollow bones that are relatively thin walled and Ive included a cross-section of a femur with the thickness .577 . The inside of these bones are also smooth not spongey looking. Your predation photo is too dark say much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 I just came across this--I guess the hollowness and thickness is dependent. Who knows what, but inguess anything from age, size, gender, fertility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 I'm glad I found that, cause I always wondered if "hollow" meant literally empty center, like the pictures I added, or just that it doesn't have solid bone/marrow in the center, but can still be honeycombed with materials. I kept meaning to post that question, but I guess this picture answered that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, Still_human said: I just came across this--I guess the hollowness and thickness is dependent. Who knows what, but inguess anything from age, size, gender, fertility? That’s a medullary bone, it’s calcium storage for eggs. That’s why it is filled in. Most long bone will be hollow, the medullary being a female trait and an exception to the rule. Yours does look like it’s been tampered with. I’d save the money for a better specimen. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 I thought that they hollowed out when they were gravid. That they used most of the network of spongy looking bone, to make eggs, so they would look like the one in questions. Ive been asking around with a number of tour leaders and sellers who specialize in hell creek, and Ive surprisingly been getting extremely varied thoughts. Most seem to think it's from a large theropod, POSSIBLY a trex, or nanotyrannus, but just as likely a few other named species like oviraptor, or a couple other things. One person thinks it's a edmontosaur rib. He would have thought its likely a theropod too, except for him JUST that it has a different textured surface than most theropods, he's settling on an ed rib. Seems like a pretty big jump from here to that to this, so Ive gotta say I don't buy that one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I suspect most people want it to be a theropod, but want should always be dropped form the equation. As I understand it, and in my hands-on experience, theropod long bones are hollow tubes of cortical bone. The mid-shaft has no spongy bone. But in gravid or near-gravid females, they deposit medullary bone in that space prior to egg-laying to be used as a reservoir for eggshells. Therefore, this extra bone is not there in non-egg-laying times - the bones are hollow most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 So when hollow, smooth as a baby's butt-hollow, or pretty much hollow? The middle of the bone in question, which has just a slight layer of what appears to mostly be just slight bumpy remenants, upto maybe 1/2 a centimeter in an area--would that be considered hollow, or would that have to be during the periods of just as a female was starting to build up the bone growth, or just as it's about to be used up? (btw, when I asked these people, i didn't mention any details. I didn't say trex, or theropod, or anything, I literally just said "can you ID this bone? It's from hell creek.) to avoid potentially contaminating anyone's thoughts. So the responses I got were 100% theirs) p.s. Ive pretty much given up on the idea of getting it, at least for the moment. I still want to figure this out for not just the sake of me very possibly wanting to get it after some other stuff, but also, thanks to all u guys, this thread has been about as great a learning experience as one could hope for!!! It's like an open-ended tutoring lesson! Lol! This is the information that will really stick with me--a revisited discussion with input from many sources. Better than school! Thank u everyone who's ever chimed in on any of my threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Been watching this discussion. Just wanted to add that when a bones interior is exposed the marrow will decay rather rapidly and leave a trace around the perimeter of the cavity. So was this bone broken and exposed long enough for the marrow to decay before burial and fossilization? Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Here's a shot of a typical theropod long bone cross-section. The hollow of the bone in question shows more than just cortical bone and, in my opinion, definitely looks like it was doctored, i.e., the hollow space was artificially enhanced by a person. Doesn't look naturally weathered either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 some 2018 sections: source: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 Is there any more to the article than what shows up on the thread page? It looks like it gets cut off at the bottom, but even clicking on it only blows up to the exact same thing, seemingly cut off at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Carl said: Here's a shot of a typical theropod long bone cross-section. The hollow of the bone in question shows more than just cortical bone and, in my opinion, definitely looks like it was doctored, i.e., the hollow space was artificially enhanced by a person. Doesn't look naturally weathered either. Can you explain? I don't know what I would be looking for, why would u think it's been enhanced? And why would that really matter? At times they have the interior bone structure anywhere from full to empty, so any amount of it would still fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 Just now, Still_human said: Can you explain? I don't know what I would be looking for, why would u think it's been enhanced? And why would that really matter? At times they have the interior bone structure anywhere from full to empty, so any amount of it would still fit. Or are you referring to the picture you included? Because I would agree, THAT does not look natural at all. I don't have to know much of anything about it to know that the bone webbing structure will never be perfectly smooth on its inside surface like that, just when the interior structure is gone entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 14 hours ago, ynot said: Been watching this discussion. Just wanted to add that when a bones interior is exposed the marrow will decay rather rapidly and leave a trace around the perimeter of the cavity. So was this bone broken and exposed long enough for the marrow to decay before burial and fossilization? It's actually not marrow, it's made entirely of bone/calcium. It's a calcium deposit built up and stored to be used making the eggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Still_human said: It's actually not marrow, it's made entirely of bone/calcium. It's a calcium deposit built up and stored to be used making the eggs. The bone in question does not look like the calcium build up of the example that Carl posted. It has the appearance of decayed marrow to Me, much more than a calcium build up. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 37 minutes ago, Still_human said: Can you explain? I don't know what I would be looking for, why would u think it's been enhanced? And why would that really matter? At times they have the interior bone structure anywhere from full to empty, so any amount of it would still fit. For a confident theropod ID, you'd want to not see anything but the dense cortical bone as shown in the photo I posted. The spongy bone being there moves the ID away from theropod. I think the bone you posted is doctored because it looks like it has been. Why would someone do that? Easy: theropods sell better than hadrosaurs. Or any non-theropod dinosaurs for that matter, I would suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 Actually, trexes ARE full of the spongy bone(medullary bone?)some of the time. Apparently a lot of the time, as I have seen many cross sections that are totally full inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 Wait, what is the cortical bone? The black mass inside the bone? I thought that was empty space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 On 7/11/2018 at 1:30 PM, ynot said: The bone in question does not look like the calcium build up of the example that Carl posted. It has the appearance of decayed marrow to Me, much more than a calcium build up. I have to disagree with that part. It actually looks exactly like the calcium build up inside the bones of Trexes(that is filled) in fact, the first trex bone picture here looks exactly like the bone I was asking about. At least as far as the internal spongy bone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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