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TqB

Fish fragment? Lower Jurassic, Whitby, England.

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TqB

Please could anyone suggest what this is? I'm assuming fish, with little (less than 1mm) white spherules that might be teeth or denticles.

 

From the Jet Rock (Mulgrave Shale Member) - a Lower Jurassic, Toarcian  shale at least partly deposited in anoxic waters. Near Whitby, Yorkshire, UK.

 

(Acquired in an auction as an extra with another fossil that I really wanted so I'm just curious really, I know little about fish!)

IMG_3098.jpg

IMG_3104.jpg

IMG_3105.jpg

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ynot

I wonder if it could be a coprolite?

Maybe @GeschWhat or @Carl can shed some light on it.

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doushantuo

eroded coleoid statoliths?

(*category wild stab in the dark)

a la Christian Malford? 

edit: typically me,focussing on the wrong thing.

The black mass might be a coprolite

 

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Carl

Boy, that's weird. The only thing I can think is coprolite. Especially if those white inclusions are some kind of small invertebrate or parts of a larger organism. 

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ynot
Just now, Carl said:

Especially if those white inclusions are some kind of small invertebrate or parts of a larger organism. 

I was thinking fish teeth.

 

Kind of like these...

5b4635da21e27_nanofish-0001.png.f377ce6bf071b6344c95b13fcdbc0275.png

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Fossildude19

The white specs look like ostracods, almost. :unsure: 

Perhaps regurgitate or coprolite. 

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JimB88

reminds be of the regurgitates containing crinoid bits I find around here.

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GeschWhat

Interesting! I can't tell if it is a coprolite or not, but that would be my best guess. Some of the little white objects look a bit like tiny bivalves to me. Rather than inclusions, they almost look like they were feeding on what ever this is. :headscratch:

 

Some of the most interesting things in my collection have been freebies thrown in with items I've purchased. 

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TqB

Thanks for all the replies!

 

I don't think it's a coprolite... @Fossildude19 Tim, they are ostracod like but I think they were distributed evenly. 

It has a platy, fish armour look about it and there are regular patterns of dimples (perhaps corresponding to missing spherules?).

 

So I'm thinking along the lines of the teeth shown by @ynot, maybe palate? Or shark skin? (Unusual preservation does crop up in these beds.)

 

I've put stars in a row of dimples on the left and you'll see other rows with good enough resolution on your screen:

5b463cf499fc1_IMG_30982.thumb.jpg.057da1028fb04e8f8c910335fa992ad1.jpg

 

Without the stars:

5b463d55547f0_IMG_30983.thumb.jpg.97d3f565dc09873b4079e2735bdf778e.jpg

 

 

And this bit from the middle is different and toothy looking.

5b463e66bc9d8_IMG_31042.jpg.e5761824af6aece6c6dce4d3585b975f.jpg

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GeschWhat
3 hours ago, TqB said:

regular patterns of dimples (perhaps corresponding to missing spherules?)

Hmmm...I didn't notice that before. :headscratch:

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Auspex

The existence of a repeating pattern to the dimples pretty much rules out coprolite or regurgitant. It appears to be crushed as well, having had a more inflated aspect before burial.

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Mike from North Queensland

Interesting piece (looks like a blob of tar) but the symmetry of the top left three rows of dimples some with the light coloured objects still in.

Might pay to look at some form of echinoid.

 

Mike 

112 (2).jpg

111.jpg

Edited by Mike from North Queensland
Added Photos

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fossilized6s

Honestly the dots remind me of arthropod material. Possible arthropod mixed into a coprolite? Or exoskeleton? 

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GeschWhat

Just a thought: What about some sort of nudibranch with calcareous ornamentation? I have a squid of some kind from the Solnhofen limestone. To see the soft body parts under the microscope, you would think you were looking at coprolite. 

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abyssunder

I would consider sponge borings on / in a hard substrate, if it was not ruled out.

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doushantuo

maybe seafloor hydrocarbon seepage?

The Whitby is overpressured.....

The more or less polygonal ridges around the patch could be caused by the seepage

edit: so the black stuff could be tar,in essence

second edit: the stuff could actually BE Whitby Jet,come to think of it.

So:the stuff that lies at the origin of that bit of informal lithostratigraphical nomenclature

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FossilsAnonymous

I am on the coprolite side of things, I agree that the black mass could be the majority while the white may be some small bits and bobs of a meal. Don't quote me though 

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minnbuckeye
6 hours ago, TqB said:

 

 

 

IMG_3105.jpg

 

 

I will not even venture a guess but the white thing in the lower left corner spirals kinda like a gastropod, at least it doesn't look tooth or ostracod to me. But the linear patterns are confusing.

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doushantuo

Something to be said for Fossilized 6: viewpoint:crustacean gastroliths

crustheusacoastplai,ptykanguujjjiidp88humb.jpg

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abyssunder

The scale and the geological age is totally different in my example compared to the specimen in question, but the shapes might be right for Entobia.

 

Large_chambered_sponge_borings_on_a_Late.thumb.jpg.1c3229ba63be828aee69f0744f2aff42.jpg

excerpt from R. G. Bromley et al. 2009. Large chambered sponge borings on a Late Cretaceous abrasion platform at Cracow, Poland. Cretaceous Research 30: 149–160

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doushantuo

nudge,wink:

crrrustheusacoastplai,ptykanguujjjiidp88humb.jpg

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doushantuo

Small round,found at possibly a seep location:hydrocarbon seep gastropod opercula?

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GeschWhat
36 minutes ago, doushantuo said:

crustacean gastroliths

Now there is something I didn't know even existed. :)

 

I'd detecting possible feeding traces. Can we see a closeup of this area?

 

81170c.jpg

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doushantuo

Gnathichnus is a gastropod ichnite:ninja:

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ynot
7 hours ago, TqB said:

maybe palate? Or shark skin? (Unusual preservation does crop up in these beds.)

Could be a palate, but the ones I have seen that were whole the "teeth" were much more crowded together forming a solid surface.

They do not look like the denticals found on sharks or rays, neither does the black part have the characteristics of skin (or cartilage).

 

I marked up a picture...

yellow are the things that resemble the teeth I posted earlier or depressions where they may have been.They appear to be at different levels in the mass.

red are things that appear to have the same mineral makeup as the "teeth", but have a different shape.

blue area just looks weird to Me.

5b463d55547f0_IMG_30983.thumb.jpg.97d3f565dc09873b4079e2735bdf778e.jpg.7a72391c182e88f424578bbd30596f4f.jpg

I still think it is a coprolite, but could see it being non fossil mineral(?).

 

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