Teeth and Vertebra from Morocco

[Abstraktum]

Hello everybody, 

 

as I mentioned in my Welcome Topic, I'm new to this whole topic but would like to start my own little fossile collection. 

 

In Europe (I live in Germany) there are a lot of sellers with teeth and bones from KemKem / Morocco since it's just over the mediterranean sea.

So i thought that it would be the easiest way to start with the most generic fossils out there.  

 

Here are some teeth and a vertebra from Carchaodontosaurus and Spinosaurus that look interessting to me. 

 

Every item is described as not repaired or fabricated. With some of them I'm really not sure.

They are from different sellers.

I can't provide any more or better pictures. These are the only pictures available. Pictures are all from the different sellers. I cut away their names.

 

Thank you so much for any information and help you can give me.   

 

 

 

Carcharodontosaurus Tooth #1, length 2.44 in

 

 

 

 

Carcharodontosaurus Tooth #2, length 1.85 in

 

 

 

Carcharodontosaurus Tooth #3, length 1.67 in

 

 

Carcharodontosaurus Tooth #4, length 1.77 in

 

 

 

Spinosaurus Tooth #1, length 3.10 in

 

 

Spinosaurus Tooth #2, length 3.94 in

 

 

 

Spinosaurid Vertebra, length 2.83 in

I'm really not sure what to think about this one. Can anyone really tell if this is from a Spinosaurid or is it just some unidentified bone?

 

 

 

[Haravex]

A couple of the teeth look to have repairs could not see any any real signs of restoration, the vertebrae is not spinosauirdae, however I am thinking it is from a dinosaur. And to help out a little with that vertebrae id @LordTrilobite and @Troodon.

[Troodon]

Your teeth look fine I do not see any restoration possibly one with a minor repair #4.  I will add that these teeth cannot be described to a species because of multiple species in this fauna.  So better described as Carcharodontosaurid and Spinosaurid indet.

Your vertebra is not a Spinosaurid possibly belongs to a Sauropod

[Tidgy's Dad]

Much better than a lot of the Moroccan stuff on offer at the moment. 

Those teeth look pretty decent to me, if the price is right. 

[LordTrilobite]

I think everything has been said about the teeth. I agree with Carcharodontosaurid and Spinosaurid. Can't identify more specifically than that.

 

The vertebra, I can see why someone would think that it's a Spinosaurid vert. But I agree that it's unlikely that it's Spino. It has a vague resemblance to the dorsal vertebrae of Spinosaurus, with the middle of the centrum being very indented. But the vertebra seems to be amphicoelous, as in both ends of the centrum are concave. Spinosaurid vertebrae should be opistocoelous for the most part (though there might be some exceptions). The pleurocoel, as in the indented area above the curve of the middle of the centrum is also quite unlike Spinosaurids. Though these are more common in Sauropods, which @Troodon already suggested.

So I agree that Sauropod might be a good candidate for this vertebra as an alternative for a theropod dorsal.

It seems to have some similarities with the mid caudal vertebrae of Diplodocids. Below is an example. As you can see the centra are also pinched in the middle like those of Spinosaurids are on the dorsals. But unlike Spinosaurid dorsal vertebrae, these caudals have pleurocoels on the sides of the centra. Only much further down the tail do the pleurocoels disappear. Though I wouldn't completely rule out a dorsal of some theropod.

 

Diplodocid anterior and mid caudals.

 

Spinosaurus aegyptiacus dorsals and one caudal.

 

 

 

[Abstraktum]

Thank you for all your help and the interesting thoughts about the vertebra 

 

@Tidgy's Dad

Cost is between around 200 to 600 $ for the teeth (original prices are in £ or in €). But I don't know if the price between the US and Europe differs (more demand? more tooth available?) much.

 

 

1 hour ago, Troodon said:

Your teeth look fine I do not see any restoration possibly one with a minor repair #4.  I will add that these teeth cannot be described to a species because of multiple species in this fauna.  So better described as Carcharodontosaurid and Spinosaurid indet.

Your vertebra is not a Spinosaurid possibly belongs to a Sauropod

 

Yes, I do understand that it's not possible to identify the exact species just by the teeth. I was giving the description of the sellers

 

With that I would like to know where the term "...saurid" stand within the biological systematics / scientific classification?

Maybe this sounds kind of a dumb question, but in German the terms can have slightly diffrent endings and the scientific levels can have different names. And I'm not that into the scientific classification. 

So I'm just not sure about what level we a talking. 

For example the wikipedia article for "Carcharodontosaurinae" gives me this:

 

Kingdom:	Animalia
Phylum:	Chordata
Clade:	Dinosauria
Order:	Saurischia
Suborder:	Theropoda
Clade:	†Carcharodontosauria
Family:	†Carcharodontosauridae
Subfamily:	†Carcharodontosaurinae

 

There it says "The subfamily consists of gigantic derived carcharodontosaurids [...]"

 

So Carcharodontosaurid is the subfamily?

[Troodon]

19 minutes ago, Abstraktum said:

Thank you for all your help and the interesting thoughts about the vertebra 

 

@Tidgy's Dad

Cost is between around 200 to 600 $ for the teeth (original prices are in £ or in €). But I don't know if the price between the US and Europe differs (more demand? more tooth available?) much.

 

 

 

Yes, I do understand that it's not possible to identify the exact species just by the teeth. I was giving the description of the sellers

 

With that I would like to know where the term "...saurid" stand within the biological systematics / scientific classification?

Maybe this sounds kind of a dumb question, but in German the terms can have slightly diffrent endings and the scientific levels can have different names. And I'm not that into the scientific classification. 

So I'm just not sure about what level we a talking. 

For example the wikipedia article for "Carcharodontosaurinae" gives me this:

 

Kingdom:	Animalia
Phylum:	Chordata
Clade:	Dinosauria
Order:	Saurischia
Suborder:	Theropoda
Clade:	†Carcharodontosauria
Family:	†Carcharodontosauridae
Subfamily:	†Carcharodontosaurinae

 

There it says "The subfamily consists of gigantic derived carcharodontosaurids [...]"

 

So Carcharodontosaurid is the subfamily?

No it's just short for Carcharodontosauridae it's at the family level.   Same for Spinosaurid. We cannot identify these species to the genus.