Echinoid? Coral?

[BuddingPaleo]

I'm not sure what this is. Looks like a little fossil cauliflower. Echinoid, coral, or neither? Sw Fl, pliocene. Any help appreciated.

[ynot]

Bryozoan is My guess.

[BuddingPaleo]

Thanks! Hadn't considered that because I'd never found one. Any way to maybe figure out what kind?

[Innocentx]

Looks like fenestella bryozoan, but it was growing on something else I can't identify. 

[BuddingPaleo]

1 hour ago, Innocentx said:

Looks like fenestella bryozoan, but it was growing on something else I can't identify. 

Thanks. So am I understanding that the bumps are from whatever it grew over? Is it the gauzy looking fibers that made you think fenestella? The bottom, in hand, appears to be barnacle. It matches the base of one cluster I have. Wouldn't explain the brainy look though. This guy'll teach me a lot, I think! Thanks again.

[Innocentx]

This is example fenestella bryozoan.

 

I if you could get a detailed close up of other surface it might help with overall ID.

[Bronzviking]

I just read in my fossil book that Fenestella Bryozoan became extinct at the end of Permian. This specimen is from the Pliocene, Tamiami Formation. The pattern does resemble that of the photo though.

[GeschWhat]

Bryozoan growing over Ophiomorpha.

[BuddingPaleo]

Man, you rock. Thanks! I found one online that looked like identical, could it be from a small shrimp burrow? Btw, I'm thinking some of stuff in my I dunno pile is probably burrows. I'm going to have a look. Also, I've ID'd some other great bryozoans that I thought were corals. As always, it's been a fun rabbit hole and I'm learning tons from you guys.  I'm truly grateful to everyone for it.

[GeschWhat]

6 minutes ago, BuddingPaleo said:

Man, you rock. Thanks! I found one online that looked like identical, could it be from a small shrimp burrow? Btw, I'm thinking some of stuff in my I dunno pile is probably burrows. I'm going to have a look. Also, I've ID'd some other great bryozoans that I thought were corals. As always, it's been a fun rabbit hole and I'm learning tons from you guys.  I'm truly grateful to everyone for it.

It looks like it is the end of a larger burrow. 

[Innocentx]

I find these along the creeks in Kansas. Here they're made by crawdad's. I had no idea the material was fecal pellets and had always thought it was mud gathered up and put in place.

 

 

Image from:   http://www.sjvgeology.org/sjvgeology/geology/trace_fossils_ophiomorpha.html

[Innocentx]

4 hours ago, Bronzviking said:

I just read in my fossil book that Fenestella Bryozoan became extinct at the end of Permian.

True and I missed that in the tags. I'll simply call it a fan coral in this case.

[GeschWhat]

1 hour ago, Innocentx said:

I find these along the creeks in Kansas. Here they're made by crawdad's. I had no idea the material was fecal pellets and had always thought it was mud gathered up and put in place.

 

 

Image from:   http://www.sjvgeology.org/sjvgeology/geology/trace_fossils_ophiomorpha.html

I don't think those are fecal pellets. Crayfish and shrimp poop rod shaped structures. I think these are mud balls. This video isn't the best, but you can see how the crayfish carries mud out as it digs it's burrow. 

 

[GeschWhat]

Here is another showing a crab making a similar burrow.

 

[BuddingPaleo]

Very nifty. I have a question though. This is obviously fossil. And I pulled it from where I pulled the gastrolith. Is it possible the gastrolith is really a fossil too? Would make more sense than a random modern one to fall right near where there's something that looks like shellfish ophiomorpha? Maybe I should start looking for claws in that area...

I don't think it's crawfish, it was with a bunch of sand dollar chunks and barnacles, amongst other marine critters. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by BuddingPaleo
Additional thought

[Plax]

I'm liking bryozoan over sponge or just bryozoan. Aldente would know for sure.

[GeschWhat]

2 hours ago, BuddingPaleo said:

Very nifty. I have a question though. This is obviously fossil. And I pulled it from where I pulled the gastrolith. Is it possible the gastrolith is really a fossil too? Would make more sense than a random modern one to fall right near where there's something that looks like shellfish ophiomorpha? Maybe I should start looking for claws in that area...

I don't think it's crawfish, it was with a bunch of sand dollar chunks and barnacles, amongst other marine critters. 

Some crabs make mud-ball burrows like this as well (the second video). In fact, in the second video, it looks like the little crab is making a little mud-ball cap to his burrow which looks a bit like your fossil. It looks like you have a good eye for spotting interesting things. As far as the gastrolith being a fossil, are their modern crayfish in the area you are hunting?

[BuddingPaleo]

There are. I'm on 6 acres in a swamp. Lol but I dug that one out of the ground about 4 inches deep, and it was attached to a conglomerate of mixed bivalves and pecten. It's red in the center because I dug a bit of iron concretion out of the center, which is where it was attached.

[Innocentx]

Thanks for the videos, @GeschWhat. Makes way more sense than the giant poop idea.

[GeschWhat]

5 minutes ago, BuddingPaleo said:

There are. I'm on 6 acres in a swamp. Lol but I dug that one out of the ground about 4 inches deep, and it was attached to a conglomerate of mixed bivalves and pecten. It's red in the center because I dug a bit of iron concretion out of the center, which is where it was attached.

If it was part of a conglomerate concretion, I would consider it a fossil. Reading a preview of THIS article, it looks like the thinking is these gastroliths usually only survive if the pre-molt animal is eaten. You didn't happen to take a picture of the gastrolith before you removed it from the concretion? Makes me wonder if it could have been an inclusion in a coprolite. 

 

I'm adding a link to the post with the gastrolith for those who haven't seen it.

[BuddingPaleo]

You know, I'm so new to this, I wasn't taking before pictures. I still forget sometimes. I said to Bronzviking not too long ago that I was starting to wonder if I'd missed a coprolite with that. I read that article preview as well. Wish I could read the whole thing! I'm going to look, I think I may still have it. I'd not, I'll look through my gave up on graveyard outside. I'd I find it, I'll post a pic. I also found what I now believe to be a cormorant tibiotarsus about 75ish feet from that area, so I know there were shorebirds in the area, stands to reason they'd be eating and pooping there...so after I look for the conglomerate, I'm gonna go look for more signs of lobstery/crabby life in that area.

[GeschWhat]

9 minutes ago, BuddingPaleo said:

You know, I'm so new to this, I wasn't taking before pictures. I still forget sometimes. I said to Bronzviking not too long ago that I was starting to wonder if I'd missed a coprolite with that. I read that article preview as well. Wish I could read the whole thing! I'm going to look, I think I may still have it. I'd not, I'll look through my gave up on graveyard outside. I'd I find it, I'll post a pic. I also found what I now believe to be a cormorant tibiotarsus about 75ish feet from that area, so I know there were shorebirds in the area, stands to reason they'd be eating and pooping there...so after I look for the conglomerate, I'm gonna go look for more signs of lobstery/crabby life in that area.

Sound like you have an amazing site. Don't feel too bad. I'm not new to this. and I sometimes start poking around before I think to snap a photo. You don't always know what you have. If it is/was a coprolite and you found one, chances are you will find another. 

[BuddingPaleo]

54 minutes ago, GeschWhat said:

Sound like you have an amazing site. Don't feel too bad. I'm not new to this. and I sometimes start poking around before I think to snap a photo. You don't always know what you have. If it is/was a coprolite and you found one, chances are you will find another. 

This is from 2 areas just a few sqft in size. And it's about 1/3 of my collection and I've barely scratched the surface. I'm in waaaaaaaaaaay over my head. Lol

[Bronzviking]

WOW that's a big pile of rocks and fossils and stuff! You could spend your lifetime digging and you won't scratch the surface! Maybe you should invite of over for a dig party? LOl. Happy hunting!

[abyssunder]

I wonder if can't be bryozoa, maybe something in the line of Hippoporidra, if not that.