The SG Fossil Cache - Raptors

[-Andy-]

 

Dromaeosaurid tooth

cf. Velociraptor mongoliensis

75 - 71 mya | late Cretaceous

Djadokhta Formation

Ömnögovi Province, Mongolia

 

This is an unusual tooth. I acquired it as a Velociraptor tooth initially but when I examined it, I was disappointed to see the tiny distal denticles which would rule out dromaeosaurids. Henry and I were worried that it might be a varanid so I emailed Dr Philip Currie with many pictures of different views + close-ups asking him if this was a theropod or varanid tooth (I didn't mention Velociraptor as I didn't want to sway his views).

 

To my surprise, he replied this:

 

"My guess is that in spite of the unusually small serrations near the tip, it is probably a dromaeosaurid tooth. As you mentioned, the curvature of the tooth, the size of the tooth, and the basal cross-section all match what I would expect in a Velociraptor tooth.

 

The sizes of the anterior and posterior serrations relative to one another, the chisel-like shapes of the serrations (which are probably worn) and the relatively small sizes of the distal serrations are not a good match for a dromaeosaurid. However, there is a lot of variability within the jaw, and between specimens. This suggests to me that the most conservative assignment of the tooth would still be dromaeosaurid. It is possible that it represents another theropod that has not been described (because it is not known yet from good enough skeletal materials), but that is a less parsimonious explanation.

 

There are large varanoids (such as Estesia) known from the Djadokhta and Baruungoyot formations, however the tooth shape is different, and when they have serrations they tend to be quite irregular in size along the carina."

[Troodon]

Interesting tooth, have a hard time seeing this as a Dromaeosaurid but Phil is the expert. Did he give you any reason for his assignment?  I would send your information to Christophe Hendrickx and see if he concurs

[Troodon]

Change my mind 

 

Might be an upper anterior Dromaeosaurid, this is from the cranial paper on Saurornitholestes that he and D. Evans published in 2019.  So possibly positional not different taxon 

 

 

 

[-Andy-]

2 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Interesting tooth, have a hard time seeing this as a Dromaeosaurid but Phil is the expert.   Did he give you any reason for his assignment?  I would send your information to Christophe Hendrickx and see if he concurs

 

We were discussing which of its features match a Dromaeosaurid and which features did not

 

Apparently, the size, shape, faceted sides and cross section was enough for him to deem it dromy in spite of the unusually small distal denticles. Dr Currie did make it clear it could still be an undescribed theropod; with more discoveries in the Djadokhta Formation, he could change his mind one day

 

I asked @Down under fossil hunter who has some experience with varanid teeth. He said this tooth did not match varanids

[JoeS]

45 minutes ago, -Andy- said:

Dromaeosaurid tooth

cf. Velociraptor mongoliensis

75 - 71 mya | late Cretaceous

Djadokhta Formation

Ömnögovi Province, Mongolia

congratulations! this is such a rare tooth, thanks for sharing

[Troodon]

Its very similar to PM2 in that image I added

[-Andy-]

A couple of nice additions to my raptor collection

 

Same tooth as before but I took better pictures now

 

[JoeS]

those teeth from Mongolia are stunning thanks for sharing!

[-Andy-]

5 hours ago, JoeS said:

those teeth from Mongolia are stunning thanks for sharing!

 

Thanks for the compliments. I finally see an end in sight for my dromaeosaur box

[Gareth_]

I'm in awe of those fossils, absolutely amazing collection. The were relatively small animals but that is a scary pointy end! 

Awesome pics too, they show a lot of detail 

[-Andy-]

I am pleased to add 3 uncommon raptors to my collection

 

Saurornitholestes sp.

81.5 - 76.9 mya | late Cretaceous

Aguja Formation

Brewster County, Trans-Peco, Texas, USA

 

?Itemirus medullaris

91 mya | late Cretaceous

Bissekty Formation

Kyzylkum Desert, Uzbekistan

(Note: Dr Hans Sues said this is probably Itemirus but he does not rule out other dromaeosaurids)

 

Variraptor mechinorum

70 mya | late Cretaceous

Argiles et Grès à Reptiles Formation

Fox-Amphoux, Var Department, SE France

(Note: The digger said this was found 100 meters from the holotype)

[Troodon]

Nice adds those Dromaeosaurids are pretty hard to find.  Love that French tooth almost impossible to find.  How can you differentiate that tooth from other small Dromaeosaurids from that formation like Pyroraptor.

 

[-Andy-]

40 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Nice adds those Dromaeosaurids are pretty hard to find.  Love that French tooth almost impossible to find.  How can you differentiate that tooth from other small Dromaeosaurids from that formation like Pyroraptor.

 

Thanks Frank. I asked the digger the same question. Besides other Variraptor being found 100 meters away, he mentioned that Pyroraptor isn't known from that location

[Troodon]

Okay but its known in the formation.  Im wondering how a digger or anyone would be able to differentiate between the two either postcranial bones or teeth

[-Andy-]

11 hours ago, Troodon said:

Okay but its known in the formation.  Im wondering how a digger or anyone would be able to differentiate between the two either postcranial bones or teeth

 

He replied that Dr Thierry Tortosa said that Pyroraptor is Begudian ie lower Maastrichtian while Variraptor is Rognacian ie upper Maastrichtian and that my tooth comes from upper Maastrichtian rocks

 

Without locality data, I don't think anyone can tell their teeth and bones apart

[Troodon]

But thats good to know and says they were stratigraphically separated as long as you can identify their specific locality.  Thanks learned something new.

 

[HynerpetonHunter]

WOW these are awesome teeth! If the one is an Itemirus, well, 

[-Andy-]

 

It has been a while since my last update. I recently acquired a "Majungasaurus" tooth that was different from other Majungasaurus, with a deflected mesial carina and a strongly recurved distal edge. It reminded me a lot of Dromaeosaurinae teeth

 

While this tooth strikes me as being more dromy-like than Masiakasaurus, but we still don't know enough about the Maevarano fauna for me to be sure of an exact ID. Still, it's a tooth I'm happy to add to my collection

[Rock Hound]

Good stuff in this thread.  Bravo!!!

[Ihopeitsnotarock]

Amazing teeth fair play!!

 

id love to be able to prep some of the finds I believe I have made. 
 

do you prepare any of the teeth yourself and if so how on Earth is it done???

 

I am a capable tradesman with many a tool but am very reluctant to attempt anything without a firm understanding of cause and effects when it comes to any fossil finds. Thanks and this is a truly amazing collection!!!