JurassicParkCarnotaurus Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 Hi all, I acquired this tooth a while back and was wondering if it is a Trex or Nanotyrannus. If you think there the same let me know I’m still on the line. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JurassicParkCarnotaurus Posted August 27, 2018 Author Share Posted August 27, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 Not the same, at least not tooth wise. @Troodon “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 I can’t help but you do need to say where it was found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JurassicParkCarnotaurus Posted August 27, 2018 Author Share Posted August 27, 2018 Oops my bad! It was found in Hell Creek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 1 minute ago, JurassicParkCarnotaurus said: Oops my bad! It was found in Hell Creek. Cool, do you know where in Hell Creek. I believe Hell Creek is a large Formation . BTW nice tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JurassicParkCarnotaurus Posted August 27, 2018 Author Share Posted August 27, 2018 Not sure where...sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 It's a partial Nanotyrannus tooth. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JurassicParkCarnotaurus Posted August 27, 2018 Author Share Posted August 27, 2018 Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Current paleontological consensus concludes that Nanotyrannus is the juvenile form of Tyrannosaurus rex (which would make your tooth a juvenile T. rex). The "Nanotyrannus" morph Jane has been determined via paleohistology to be a juvenile and considerably younger than adult specimens of T. rex. All of the features that supposedly separate Nanotyrannus from Tyrannosaurus have been identified as changing during growth (long narrow snout, higher tooth count). It's also perhaps no coincidence that not a single juvenile skull that looks like a miniature version of an adult skull (e.g. with the same proportions) has been found to date, nor has there been an adult "Nanotyrannus" morph been discovered (e.g. Jane is a juvenile). It's really important to stress that the "Nanotyrannus" hypothesis is held on to by a few holdouts (Bakker, Larson) and is a minority opinion at present. There is still a lot of work to be done of course, but I know of several forthcoming studies that will be further devastating to the hypothesis (consult various public talks by J. Horner, T. Carr, H. Woodward, and others - probably can be found on youtube). References: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02724634.1999.10011161 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02724634.2011.557116 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0147687 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151029102249.htm 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Nanotyrannus based on the thin profile 5 Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JurassicParkCarnotaurus Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Thanks for the insight. What I'm gathering is pretty much until a juvenile Rex or an adult Nanotyrannus is found Nanotyrannus is a juvenile Rex. Correct? Also, I'm from Cleveland, and our natural history museum has “Jane” the Nanotyrannus in its collection and which is pretty cool. I've gotten to read up on that at the museum and find it really fascinating- that's what influenced me to get the tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 35 minutes ago, JurassicParkCarnotaurus said: What I'm gathering is pretty much until a juvenile Rex or an adult Nanotyrannus is found Nanotyrannus is a juvenile Re An adult Nanotyrannus had been found 98% complete but currently in private hands, needs to be in a museum. Two baby/juvie Trex partial skulls have been found and appear compare well with Adult Trex and not Nanotyrannus. Both are being studied believe at U of Kansas. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JurassicParkCarnotaurus Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Sooo Trex and Nanotyrannus are different then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, JurassicParkCarnotaurus said: Sooo Trex and Nanotyrannus are different then... Come back in a few years and there may be a definite answer, at least that’s the feel I get from the situation. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 It does sound like the great debate will come to an conclusion . I hope the Nanotyrannus adult finds its way to science. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JurassicParkCarnotaurus Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Hopefully it does become its own species- also any idea how big the adult Nanotyrannus is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 21 minutes ago, JurassicParkCarnotaurus said: Hopefully it does become its own species- also any idea how big the adult Nanotyrannus is? Jane is an adult Nanotyrannus....will be the subject of a debate for years to come. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JurassicParkCarnotaurus Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Cool- well now I now exactly how big! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, Troodon said: Jane is an adult Nanotyrannus....will be the subject of a debate for years to come. Wow ok that is interesting that Jane is an adult I thought she a juvenile. Thank for the info . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Bobby Rico said: Wow ok that is interesting that Jane is an adult I thought she a juvenile. Thank for the info . That's what Tom Carr believes why it's a juvie Rex and the subject of his upcoming monograph. The Paleontologists on the opposing side have other arguments. Enjoy sitting back and watching this play out... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JurassicParkCarnotaurus Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Should be very interesting... Ill be sure to check out his monograph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Jane isn't an adult of anything - still very much growing rapidly. The histological work to my knowledge has only been presented at conferences thus far and not yet published, but I imagine it will soon. None of the specimens that @Troodon mentions have been studied by scientists or published, so any information about them is inconclusive. These specimens are all still in private collections, and access has thus far really only been granted to scientists who are pro-Nanotyrannus. The "juvenile T. rex" at KU is not in a museum collection and to my knowledge is temporarily on exhibit as a loan to the museum and thus not available for study. regardless, it is a fragmentary lower jaw and 4 tiny skull chunks and a handful of teeth that is so fragmentary it doesn't have any bearing on what the dimensions and proportions of the skull are, and thus is not directly comparable with the Nano holotype skull, Jane, or larger T. rex specimens. To cite "Baby Bob" as evidence supporting Nanotyrannus is disingenuous. This is all there is of "Baby Bob": This is how it is reconstructed (to look like a miniature T. rex): 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 20 minutes ago, Boesse said: Jane isn't an adult of anything - still very much growing rapidly. The histological work to my knowledge has only been presented at conferences thus far and not yet published, but I imagine it will soon... ...and soon thereafter, a lot of labels will need to be revised... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 33 minutes ago, Boesse said: These specimens are all still in private collections, and access has thus far really only been granted to scientists who are pro-Nanotyrannus. One would hope that their personal opinion did not impact their professional evaluation. At least it shouldn’t. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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