Teeny tiny bone

[Innocentx]

I have admittedly crappy pictures of a tiny bone. My microscope is not special. I'm hoping someone knows this from it's shape. Graph paper background 5mm square.

It's probably marine, but not sure. Appears to be a vertebra.

Cottonwood Ls Mbr, Council Grove group. Lower Permian, Kansas.

[ynot]

Looks like a fish skull bit.

[Innocentx]

Thanks @ynot. I've been looking for fish material and this may be the first I've found besides a few shark teeth.

[ynot]

1 minute ago, Innocentx said:

I've been looking for fish material and this may be the first I've found

 Woohoo!

I  like firsts.

[Innocentx]

[Fossildude19]

+ 1 for Fish frontal bone.  Great find! 

Congratulations on your first fish bit.  

[jdp]

Council Grove Group is a lot of fun. I've got a bit of experience in the Speiser and Eskridge Formations...lots of great fossil material there!

 

So.

 

I have my doubts that this is fish, but I do think this might be some sort of tetrapod. My initial reaction was that this was a vertebra from an aistopod (e.g. Phlegethontia) but it's possible it's from some other small tetrapod. I think it's a vertebra, but it might be a fragmentary chunk of braincase. I won't totally rule out fish, but it seems hard to justify. I guess this could be part of a haplolepid though; I'd have to see the specimen under a scope to be sure. 

 

Have you collected a lot of vertebrate material from this site? 

[Fossildude19]

5 minutes ago, jdp said:

Council Grove Group is a lot of fun. I've got a bit of experience in the Speiser and Eskridge Formations...lots of great fossil material there!

So.

I have my doubts that this is fish, but I do think this might be some sort of tetrapod. My initial reaction was that this was a vertebra from an aistopod (e.g. Phlegethontia) but it's possible it's from some other small tetrapod. I think it's a vertebra, but it might be a fragmentary chunk of braincase. I won't totally rule out fish, but it seems hard to justify. I guess this could be part of a haplolepid though; I'd have to see the specimen under a scope to be sure. 

 

Have you collected a lot of vertebrate material from this site? 

Interesting insights here! 

Thanks for chiming in! I'm glad you did.  

 

@Innocentx ,

Can we get views of both ends and sides? 

[Innocentx]

3 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

Congratulations on your first fish bit.

Thanks!!!

 

1 hour ago, jdp said:

Have you collected a lot of vertebrate material from this site? 

This is the first piece. My first impression was also vertebra but need look at the ends.

 

1 hour ago, Fossildude19 said:

Can we get views of both ends and sides? 

I've been thinking how to go about this because I'm rather afraid of losing or crushing it with tweezers. Perhaps by using a small piece of clear scotch tape, I can maneuver it into place.

 

 

[Bullsnake]

1 hour ago, Innocentx said:

Thanks!!!

 

This is the first piece. My first impression was also vertebra but need look at the ends.

 

I've been thinking how to go about this because I'm rather afraid of losing or crushing it with tweezers. Perhaps by using a small piece of clear scotch tape, I can maneuver it into place.

 

 

 

Nice find!

For what it's worth, I use a small sewing needle clamped in hemostats to prop tiny pieces up onto a small piece of matrix, i.e. grain of sand, etc.

Beware of static electricity with tiny pieces.

[Innocentx]

Again, these are terrible photos but...

 

side view

 

end view

 

 

other end

 

And one more, could this be a fin? App. 5 mm

 

Thanks.

[Al Dente]

5 hours ago, Innocentx said:

I've been thinking how to go about this because I'm rather afraid of losing or crushing it with tweezers. Perhaps by using a small piece of clear scotch tape, I can maneuver it into place.

I use a small very fine tipped paint brush to lift small fossils. It won’t crush them unless they are extremely fragile. I keep it dry but if the object is too tiny, a little moisture will help but will make it hard to release.

[GeschWhat]

6 hours ago, Al Dente said:

I use a small very fine tipped paint brush to lift small fossils. It won’t crush them unless they are extremely fragile. I keep it dry but if the object is too tiny, a little moisture will help but will make it hard to release.

I never thought of that! Thanks for the tip. 

[jdp]

On 8/28/2018 at 3:41 PM, Innocentx said:

Again, these are terrible photos but...

 

side view

 

end view

 

 

other end

 

And one more, could this be a fin? App. 5 mm

 

Thanks.

The second fossil is almost certainly a fragment of brachiopod and not a vertebrate fossil. The ends on the first fossil just don't fit with a vertebra ID, particularly there's no neural canal. I am wondering if maybe this is an arm plate from some sort of echinoderm.

[Brittle Star]

I work a lot with fragile times, instead of moisture lightly brush your cheek with the end of your tweezers or a needle and that picks up things and a light tap releases it into a container. I do that when I am sorting residue.

[Innocentx]

On 8/30/2018 at 7:28 AM, jdp said:

The ends on the first fossil just don't fit with a vertebra ID, particularly there's no neural canal.

Could this be a caudal vertebra from tip of a tail? 

[jdp]

I don't think so...caudal verts are still pretty much comparable to other verts. I do think this might be a bit of echinoderm.

[Innocentx]

2 hours ago, jdp said:

I do think this might be a bit of echinoderm.

Is there a particular echinoderm you have in mind? 

[Innocentx]

I'm thinking it may be an ophiuroid arm ossicle. Does that seem right?

[jdp]

Yeah that seems right.