Paul1719 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 With not a lot of new material to obsess with (broken arm) I have been going through old specimens to see if there are unfinished prepping and ID needed. Here is a set of scales/scale impressions collected in 2014 at Red Hill, late devonian (Famennian) site in Pennsylvania. Found in the shallow channel margin (red sediments) with what has been ID'd as a couple scapulocoracoids of the acanthodian, Gyracanthus (plus a fin spine). They are almost certainly sarcopterygian but not sure what clade. Has anyone, Archie? seen similar scales. Thought they might be Holoptychius but they don't look like the classic Holoptychius scales and they were not at all common in this upriver environment. Doug Rowe who oversees the site and runs the outstanding museum there, suggested they might be Rhizodont but nothing I've seen of Rhizodont scales looks anything like these. Thanks for any help. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Devonian fish sure armoured themselves up. What were they protecting,? What secrets were they hiding? Tune in next week. Where all will be revealed. Same fish time, same fish channel. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daves64 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 36 minutes ago, caldigger said: Devonian fish sure armoured themselves up. What were they protecting,? What secrets were they hiding? Tune in next week. Where all will be revealed. Same fish time, same fish channel. I'll be sure to "tuna" in.. 1 Accomplishing the impossible means only that the boss will add it to your regular duties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I’d say broken or strangely placed holoptychus scales. However, red hill produces a new species every once in a while so there a possibility it’s something unknown. You could send a email to Ted Daeschler, his email is online, just look up his name. @Archie I went to red hill once about a month ago and it is an amazing place. Gotta go back again soon, just so far from me. 3 “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Wow this material looks really interesting! These are actually really similar to a single large scale I found in the Pennsylvanian/Upper Carboniferous that I havent had identified yet, I'll get a pic. Regards, Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I don't think these are Rhizodont. How big are these? ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1719 Posted August 31, 2018 Author Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) Sorry, I try to always place a scale in the picture. They are about 15-17 mm. I did ask Daeschler but there seems to be some uncertainty about the id. I think they previously ascribed them to Holoptychius but they are very different from the Holoptychius I have from another Catskill site and any I've seen. I tend to think these are the actual scale or impression of the exterior? surface. The first picture shows the impression underneath and a piece of the scale with typical growth rings. I actually just came back from Red Hill with my son. This is a cheek plate of possibly the megalichthyid or it might be Hyneria. it wasn't possible to see any ornamentation. Its with the museum now and Ted Daeschler will have a look in a couple weeks. Its about 25 cm across. Edited August 31, 2018 by Paul1719 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 40 minutes ago, Paul1719 said: I actually just came back from Red Hill with my son. This is a cheek plate of possibly the megalichthyid or it might be Hyneria. it wasn't possible to see any ornamentation. Its with the museum now and Ted Daeschler will have a look in a couple weeks. Its about 25 cm across. I worked on the same cheekbone I think! Doug found it, I cleared it a bit. Good to see it out all the way, and glad it got to the museum. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Before “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1719 Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 Yes, that was exactly it. While Hyneria is found in the floodplain facies (green layers), the Megalichthyid seems to be more common there. We had the advantage of using the museum's jackhammer so we were able to cut a pretty big trench around it and my son spent about 2-3 hours chiseling it out. The current project I am working on with the museum is to find more tetrapod material. It'll be a matter of moving as much rock as possible and eventually something should turn up. At least that is the theory. Here is a couple of fossils (anterior mandible and vomer after prep by Fred Mullison, ANSP) from the Hyneria lens my son found in 2014 which inspired Ted Daeschler to buy a jackhammer for the museum. Exquisite 3d preservation and of course the preparation was world class. They are in the ANSP collection and were used in the recent JVP re-description of Hyneria although only the post parietal shield made it in as a figure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 @Paul1719 I worked on the cheekbone for about ten minutes, so I had no idea if it was gonna turn out as anything. Glad it did! I was limited on time there, but it was an exciting when Doug went “hey, hey over here! I found a skull bone!” I hope you do find more tetrapod material, it’s definitely there! That’s a nice jaw right there. It’s a hard job out there in the heat, but it pays off. This is making me want to get out there again. If he offered I payed internships over the summer I’d take it in a heartbeat. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now