Are these oviraptor eggs real?

[mapo]

I wonder if you can tell whether these eggs are real or reconstructed or simply fakes?

Thanks!

[DPS Ammonite]

Welcome to the Forum. 

 

Do you have a locality and age for these? Better up-close photos of the texture will help with an ID.

 

I like the look of these but I am not an expert. Let us bring in our experts to help. @CBchiefski and @Troodon 

[mapo]

I only know that they come from China. Here is a closer photo!

[Tidgy's Dad]

They are really beautiful and look about as good as they get to me. 

Which makes me highly suspicious! 

[RJB]

  Yeah, what Tidgy said.  Look really good.  Hard to tell by the picks if anything has been done to them?

 

RB

[JarrodB]

They almost look too good to be true. 

[bcfossilcollector]

At a glance theses eggs appear to be beautiful specimens but agree better pictures are necessary @-Andy-

[bcfossilcollector]

@HamptonsDoc

[HamptonsDoc]

For several reasons I would not purchase these- I think they are very good fakes or composites.

 

1- The matrix does not look right for eggs of this type from China or Mongolia (the only places these are found).

2- The eggs are too perfect to be left with their bottom halves stuck in matrix which leads me to believe the shell was placed there by man.  If the top portion of the eggs look this good with this amount of inflation there is a good chance the bottom portion would be just as good.  Hatching windows of this type are not typically seen as taking the egg and cutting it in half longways as these are presented.  If these were real and prepped like this then the preparer would know that if he were to free the eggs of all its matrix and was in this good of condition then they would be worth around $3k for each egg, significantly more than the asking price!

3- The third reason...if you're interested to know please PM me!

 

STAY AWAY!

[doushantuo]

you MIGHT have to explain "hatching window" to the uniniated,I think.

I know what it is,other might not

What would be the legal ramifications of you telling a prospective buyer NOT to buy?

 

[bcfossilcollector]

Excellent points from HamptonsDoc!  I thought it odd, as well, that eggs in such splendid condition would be left without at least an attempt being made to clean the matrix away. 

[doushantuo]

the matrix might allow some form of "authentication"?

(geochemistry,clay mineralogy,detrital minerals?/palynology/other microfosiils)

[Seguidora-de-Isis]

I disagree. In my opinion the first thing that should be examined is the ornamentation of the shell. And there is a perfect continuity of ornamentation between one crack and another;

 

 

In addition, I see a fragment of eggshell isolated and calcite traversing across the matrix, and this is already a good start to excellent news of possibly real.

 

 

And there is no way to waste so much time falsifying continuity in the ornamentation of the bark to make so little profit. The matrix has granulation, fragments of rocks and coloring compatible with what I expect to be real. However, I must admit that there are strange areas in the eggs where possibly there was restoration:

 

 

Where did the shell ornament go?

 

 

These eggs are found in thousands in China, digging water wells, blowing up quarries, pitting holes to repair asphalt and finally ... For the Chinese, eggs like these are perfectly normal, as they exist in abundance and in large tons. But we who live in other countries, we are amazed by the perfect state of conservation that many eggs can reach. Are there Chinese egg forgeries? Of course there are! But the biggest point of this phenomenon is that fake eggs can come out of china easily, even mixed with real eggs, but the fact is that real eggs can not leave China.

 

I have no doubt that someone has discovered a new mine of theropods eggs in China, and someone has discovered how to mix these real eggs with fake eggs and export everything through Hong Kong.  The new scares the collectors and this is normal, but we must not forget that when the Keichousaurus arrived on the international market, everyone said they were fakes.  Shoot the first fossil who has no sin!

 

In my opinion, even restored in several points, it is still an excellent acquisition!

[DPS Ammonite]

I think that we still need some advice from some of our other experts that I tagged earlier. We really need to look at these things in person which is probably not possible.

 

These look more realistic than others. Note the saw marks on the bottom of the third photo suggesting that they were "cut out". If these are fake then they are good quality fakes that are not worth the money paid. 

 

[-Andy-]

I would skip these eggs too. Every Oviraptorid egg in matrix that I've ever seen in person turned out to either be fake, or heavily composited.

 

My advice for getting Oviraptorid eggs is: Always get one free of matrix.

 

There's another reason why I advise skipping these eggs, so feel free to PM @HamptonsDoc or I to ask why.

[Crazyhen]

3 hours ago, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

Where did the shell ornament go?

 

 

I agree with our friend @Seguidora-de-Isis that this pair of eggs might as well be genuine.  Raptor eggs with such good shell coverage and ornamentation are not too uncommon in China.  Of course, you won't be seeing them everyday from the source but from time to time such nice eggs are found.  The matrix looks like those from Ganzhou to me.

 

As to the missing shell ornamentation, I would suppose it's worn off during prepping.  The egg dealers, other than having the bad habit of wetting the eggs, employ workers to prep the eggs in a very rough way.  The shell ornamentation might have been removed in the process of removing the matrix.

[Seguidora-de-Isis]

9 minutes ago, Crazyhen said:

I agree with our friend @Seguidora-de-Isis that this pair of eggs might as well be genuine.  Raptor eggs with such good shell coverage and ornamentation are not too uncommon in China.  Of course, you won't be seeing them everyday from the source but from time to time such nice eggs are found.  The matrix looks like those from Ganzhou to me.

 

As to the missing shell ornamentation, I would suppose it's worn off during prepping.  The egg dealers, other than having the bad habit of wetting the eggs, employ workers to prep the eggs in a very rough way.  The shell ornamentation might have been removed in the process of removing the matrix.

 

Excellent my dear friend Crazyhen! I also found the matrix extremely similar in granulation and coloring with the Ganzhou region! Moreover, if the Chinese were so masterful in the art of Kung Egg Fu 武術, restoring fossil eggs, or even making them, we would not see the same seller selling eggs that are real but so terrible like this:

 

[Crazyhen]

13 minutes ago, -Andy- said:

I would skip these eggs too. Every Oviraptorid egg in matrix that I've ever seen in person turned out to either be fake, or heavily composited.

 

My advice for getting Oviraptorid eggs is: Always get one free of matrix.

 

There's another reason why I advise skipping these eggs, so feel free to PM @HamptonsDoc or I to ask why.

There are genuine ones in matrix.  Take a look.

 

And also raptor eggs with good shell coverage and ornamentation.

 

They are all from Ganzhou.

[HamptonsDoc]

1 minute ago, Crazyhen said:

There are genuine ones in matrix.  Take a look.

 

And also raptor eggs with good shell coverage and ornamentation.

 

They are all from Ganzhou.

I think Andy was referring to eggs laying horizontally atop matrix, which appears to be done to deceive buyers of what is beneath. The eggs posted directly above are beautiful and very real!

 

Of course all of our opinions are just that, opinions. From pictures alone we cannot tell what is real and what is fake unless it is blatantly obvious. I think everyone made good points and arguments on both sides. As a collector almost exclusively focusing on eggs, I would not want the original eggs from this thread in my collection, but that does not mean others would agree. Eggs remain one of the most controversial fossils to collect for so many reasons and as technology continues to evolve and the internet makes conversations like this accessible to people on all sides of the trade, production of counterfeit fossils will only improve in our lifetimes. 

[Crazyhen]

8 minutes ago, HamptonsDoc said:

I think Andy was referring to eggs laying horizontally atop matrix, which appears to be done to deceive buyers of what is beneath. The eggs posted directly above are beautiful and very real!

 

Of course all of our opinions are just that, opinions. From pictures alone we cannot tell what is real and what is fake unless it is blatantly obvious. I think everyone made good points and arguments on both sides. As a collector almost exclusively focusing on eggs, I would not want the original eggs from this thread in my collection, but that does not mean others would agree. Eggs remain one of the most controversial fossils to collect for so many reasons and as technology continues to evolve and the internet makes conversations like this accessible to people on all sides of the trade, production of counterfeit fossils will only improve in our lifetimes. 

I agree with you entirely, @HamptonsDoc.  Indeed fake eggs are made with ever better techniques.  Take a look of the eggs below.  They were man-made but it's so difficult to tell that they are fake.

[Seguidora-de-Isis]

5 minutes ago, Crazyhen said:

I agree with you entirely, @HamptonsDoc.  Indeed fake eggs are made with ever better techniques.  Take a look of the eggs below.  They were man-made but it's so difficult to tell that they are fake.

 

Fakes?

 

I take back what I said! There are definitely Chinese masters in the art of Kung Egg Fu!

 

 

 

[Crazyhen]

1 minute ago, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

 

Fakes?

 

I take back what I said! There are definitely Chinese masters in the art of Kung Egg Fu!

 

 

 

I was told that these are made in Henan.  It was made by chemicals, and the shell colour and "old" look of the shell were fine tuned by rubbing the eggs with hands.  Amazing, right?  If it was not told by a seller of fake eggs from Henan, I would just get these fake eggs as they look so real and good.

[Seguidora-de-Isis]

28 minutes ago, Crazyhen said:

I was told that these are made in Henan.  It was made by chemicals, and the shell colour and "old" look of the shell were fine tuned by rubbing the eggs with hands.  Amazing, right?  If it was not told by a seller of fake eggs from Henan, I would just get these fake eggs as they look so real and good.

 

Oh Yes my dear friend Crazyhen , eggs without shell ornaments really can be very perfect, but when it comes to making eggs with ornaments of shells, it is extremely difficult to get satisfactory results. But this does not mean that fake eggs with ornate shells do not exist. I have seen many fakes in the Market, lousy, reasonable, good and excellent! But a false egg, whose ornaments cross a crack and another, and still with calcite filling by the egg and the matrix, for now I have not seen.

[Seguidora-de-Isis]

 

I do not know about you my dear friends, but I really miss the years 1999 and 2000, when on our favorite auction site there were thousands of genuine Dinosaur eggs for sale, and our only concern was not to buy these concretions than some Chinese announced as if they were authentic dinosaur eggs...

 

 

Those were good times... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mapo]

Thanks for the helps guys! I will stay away from this-there is no point going for something if there are serious doubts about its authenticity.