Help to ID triassic plant fossil from Bruchsal Germany

[ziggycardon]

Hi, a month back I bought these two plant fossils at a shop.
But unfortunatly the guy at the store forgot to put the information card of them in the box. :/
What I can remember reading when I bought them was that they were from the Triassic era and that they were found in the Bruchsal area in Germany.
But that's unfortunatly all I could remember, I don't know their exact age or species. I tried to research the exact age of the fossils found in that area or what species can be found there, but unfortunatly in my search I did not find any anwsers, only one guy with pictures of the same fossil species from the same area and age, but unfortunatly I did not get a reply back from the guy.
So I was hoping one of you guys here could help me to ID the fossil.

Thanks in advance!

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[ziggycardon]

Forgot to make a picture with something for scale, so here is a new photo!
pic upload

[Tidgy's Dad]

The one on the right looks to me like Asterotheca.

The one on the left maybe Alethopteris? 

[Ludwigia]

@paleoflor ?

[ziggycardon]

30 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

The one on the right looks to me like Asterotheca.

The one on the left maybe Alethopteris? 

Thank you for your quick response! 
I started googling the names and compared the pictures I've found with my fossils and left one might indeed belong to the Alethopteris family. The right one might indeed also belong to the Asterotheca family but it is hard to compare since the leaves on my fossil did not preserve much details. 

 

So I've made some photo's with my cell-microscope. Maybe that can give some more insight.

 

These first two images belong to the specimen on the right from the above photo's

 

These last two images belong to the specimen on the left from the above photo's

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[paleoflor]

Hmm, tough. As far as I'm aware, Alethopteris is a predominantly Paleozoic foliage type, which would not fit with the Triassic age assigned to these specimens. How certain is this age constraint? If truly from the Triassic, perhaps you could contact Klaus-Peter Kelber. He might be able to help you further.

[ziggycardon]

On 24-9-2018 at 7:21 PM, paleoflor said:

Hmm, tough. As far as I'm aware, Alethopteris is a predominantly Paleozoic foliage type, which would not fit with the Triassic age assigned to these specimens. How certain is this age constraint? If truly from the Triassic, perhaps you could contact Klaus-Peter Kelber. He might be able to help you further.

I send an email to the seller and I got a reply back! 
Apparently one of the student workers mixed up the labels and the specimen I bought is a fern from the Carboniferous not the Triassic and it was found in Piesberg Quarry in Osnabrück in Germany. 
So now that I know the correct geological time era and the correct fossil location I was able to compare them on the ID-list of that location on fossiel.net and they do indeed match with Alethopteris sp.
Haven't figured out the exact species yet, but I am happy I finally have a genus and correct information on the era and location! 

Thanks to everyone who was so friendly to reply! 

[paleoflor]

Carboniferous, that makes much more sense. Left specimen is indeed an Alethopteris. Köwing and Rabitz (2005) list three species of Alethopteris that supposedly occur in the Westphalian D of the Piesberg, namely A. davreuxii, A. grandini and A. missouriensis. Josten (1991) and Josten and van Amerom (1999) also mention A. serlii and A. lonchitica, but note that these sightings could come from stratigraphically lower, no-longer-accessible parts of the quarry (see Fossiel.net page for full references). Of these first three species, your specimen shows most resemblance to A. davreuxii. But it is no text-book match. You should note that it would not be the first time I find the published species lists for the Piesberg to be incomplete. You may want to consider consulting more general reference works on Alethopterids (e.g. Wagner, 1968; Buisine, 1961) to perform a more rigorous specific identification. Your second specimen (figured on right-hand side) is not an Alethopteris, if you ask me.

 

References:

Wagner, R. H. (1968). Upper Westphalian and Stephanian species of Alethopteris from Europe, Asia Minor and North America.

Köwing, К., and A. Rabitz. (2005). Osnabrücker Karbon. In: Das Oberkarbon (Pennsylvanium) in Deutschland 5.