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adriano

Need help before buying Deltadromeus agilis tooth

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adriano

Dear fossils experts, I would like to buy a new dinosaur tooth from the Kem Kem beds; I already read (more or less 10 times!) this thread -

- but I'm a bit confused and I would really appreciate your opinion about those teeth sold as "Raptor Deltadromeus agilis".

 

s-l1600.thumb.jpg.f74871456aa2d931faf1b472f0dfefcf.jpgs-l1600j.thumb.jpg.b8852afee7f9edbad6d068cc5140847a.jpgs-l00.thumb.jpg.8dbae7cea556174754b32af6cb6073b3.jpgs-l0.thumb.jpg.94e84af2bb9ff441b8648801b22d7577.jpg

 

Comparing the images in the @Troodon post, to me those teeth are more likely of a Dromaeosaurid or Abelisaurid indet.

 

What do you think? Thank you for your time and have a nice day!

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talon22

Hi,

 

That tooth is an Abelisaurid tooth that unfortunately hasn't been described from the Kem Kem Beds yet. No skull of Deltadromeus has been found yet, so it is impossible to know what there teeth look like. Unfortunately many dealers like to label it as such because to them having a name attached to the fossil is better as selling than say theropod indet or Abelisaur indet.

 

There is also a theory that Deltadromeus was a herbivore and may of lacked teeth altogether like it's supposed close relative Limusaurus (which only have teeth as a juvenile and was replaced with a beak in adulthood). This theory however is a matter of debate....at least until skull material is found.

 

Anyway when you see a tooth labelled as Deltadromeus, take it with a grain of salt because for now there is no way of knowing. Hope that helps :)

 

 

P.S. There currently is no Dromaeosaurid described from the formations of the Kem Kem, but some fossils seem to match quite well with Dromaeosaurids, so raptors might one day be described from that area.

 

 

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LordTrilobite

I agree, this is an Abelisaurid tooth. Among the most common theropod teeth in the Kem Kem beds. The straight back edge is very typical of these kinds of teeth.

No skull of Deltadromeus has been found. And thus any teeth cannot be attributed to Deltadromeus. If teeth are labeled as such, it is incorrectly labeled. Labeling teeth as Deltadromeus is just a marketing trick, nothing more.

 

The latest studies (as far as I know) concluded that Deltadromeus was a Neovenatorid. Deltadromeus also has nothing to do with raptors/dromaeosaurids.

 

Though dromaeosaurids have indeed not been described from the Kem Kem beds, they are definitely present.

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WhodamanHD

I couldn’t find any reference to what a neovenatorid tooth would look like. I could only find teeth of related orkoraptor and australovenator. Without any referred teeth, we can’t ecen begin to assume what could be deltadromeus.

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talon22
10 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said:

I couldn’t find any reference to what a neovenatorid tooth would look like. I could only find teeth of related orkoraptor and australovenator. Without any referred teeth, we can’t ecen begin to assume what could be deltadromeus.

I found an article that talked about a young boy who found a Neovenator tooth on a fossil hunting trip in the Isle of Wight.

 

http://www.isbi.com/story/4162/boy-from-barrow-hills-school-discovers-rare-dinosaur-tooth-on-fossil-hunting-trip.php

 

 

This is what the tooth looks likes....

 

ss4162a.jpg

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WhodamanHD
17 minutes ago, talon22 said:

I found an article that talked about a young boy who found a Neovenator tooth on a fossil hunting trip in the Isle of Wight.

Not a scientific article nor is the tooth associated with other remains. In order to say “this is a neovenator tooth” we need a specimen that matches with the holotype (or is the holotype) that has teeth in it. Then we can base it off the teeth. Perhaps they have a reference I don’t, which is entirely possible. 

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doushantuo

5e54px-Augen_gneiss_est.jpg

below:Fukuivenator

 

 

 

 

 

 

5e54px-Augen_gneiss_est.jpg

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WhodamanHD
10 minutes ago, doushantuo said:

Fukuivenator

Don’t believe that it is a neovenatorid. 

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doushantuo

Hm...

It's very derived,in any case.

Which is why it probably shouldn't be in this thread.

 

 

 

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WhodamanHD

I would be lying if I said I knew a ton about dinosaurs but this is what Wikipedia says, based off Cerrano

86F3ECBD-8173-453E-8EEB-3092F90AD258.jpeg

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doushantuo

the current taxonomic content of Neovenatoridae might be: Siats,Aerosteon,Megaraptor,Chilantaisaurus,Australovenator,Fukuivenor,and Neovenator(obviosusly)

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adriano
3 hours ago, talon22 said:

Hi,

 

That tooth is an Abelisaurid tooth that unfortunately hasn't been described from the Kem Kem Beds yet.

 

P.S. There currently is no Dromaeosaurid described from the formations of the Kem Kem, but some fossils seem to match quite well with Dromaeosaurids, so raptors might one day be described from that area.

 

1 hour ago, LordTrilobite said:

I agree, this is an Abelisaurid tooth. Among the most common theropod teeth in the Kem Kem beds. The straight back edge is very typical of these kinds of teeth.

 

Though dromaeosaurids have indeed not been described from the Kem Kem beds, they are definitely present.

 

Thanks to everyone for the replies, in particular to @talon22 and @LordTrilobite. Actually I'm interested in a Moroccan's Dromaeosaurid tooth - maybe one day in the future I can say that is a raptor tooth!

What I have to look for? Similar to Abelisaurid teeth but with curved inside edge?

 

Thank you! :trex:

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talon22

Well, can't find any pictures of Neovenatorid teeth that aren't isolated, but funny enough if you go into google scholar and type in Neovenator tooth/teeth, you can find on the first page some descriptions like   Neovenator has teeth with the mesial carina covering 1/3 of the tooth height from the tip (Brusatte et al., 2008) and Neovenator possess typical allosauroid teeth, and they show 12 serrations per 5 mm.

 

There is also this link which describes the teeth (but no pictures)...https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195667104000278#TBL1

 

I think there is a debate about whether Megaraptora is a group of Neovenatorids - if that is the case then Fukuiraptor teeth might be helpful. Then again whether Deltadromeus is also a Neovenatorid could also be debatable.

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doushantuo

fig 4 in that one has good closeups of the (mid-carina)denticles.

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adriano
16 minutes ago, adriano said:

 

 

Thanks to everyone for the replies, in particular to @talon22 and @LordTrilobite. Actually I'm interested in a Moroccan's Dromaeosaurid tooth - maybe one day in the future I can say that is a raptor tooth!

What I have to look for? Similar to Abelisaurid teeth but with curved inside edge?

 

Thank you! :trex:

 

8 minutes ago, doushantuo said:

fig 4 in that one has good closeups of the (mid-carina)denticles.

 

Were you answering to my question? Which fig 4 are you referring to?

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doushantuo

Fig 4 in the Sweetman article Talon 22 mentioned

 

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adriano
21 minutes ago, doushantuo said:

Fig 4 in the Sweetman article Talon 22 mentioned

 

 

Got it, but I can't zoom images thumbnail previews... :( Can you download and post it here?

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doushantuo

NO!

copyright restrictions!

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Runner64
On 9/9/2018 at 10:29 AM, adriano said:

 

 

Thanks to everyone for the replies, in particular to @talon22 and @LordTrilobite. Actually I'm interested in a Moroccan's Dromaeosaurid tooth - maybe one day in the future I can say that is a raptor tooth!

What I have to look for? Similar to Abelisaurid teeth but with curved inside edge?

 

Thank you! :trex:

Need to look for a recurved tooth with prominent interior serrations.  Believe the ones found are similar in appearance to Sauronitholestes (butchered the name but velociraptorine) teeth.

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adriano

I finally decided to invest a bit more and I bought an Acheroraptor tooth from Hell Creek. I should receive it the next week.

 

dr18-2.jpg

dr18-1.jpg

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Runner64
2 hours ago, adriano said:

I finally decided to invest a bit more and I bought an Acheroraptor tooth from Hell Creek. I should receive it the next week.

 

dr18-2.jpg

dr18-1.jpg

A much nicer tooth in my opinion :dinothumb:Hope you like it!

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