DPS Ammonite Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Any idea what these silicified possible crinoids are? Are they even crinoids? They are from the Pennsylvanian Naco Formation from near Payson. The ones in the photos (both sides are shown) are from 0.8 to 1.5 cm wide. @crinus These two references might be of help. Anyone have access to the photos from these? Webster, G., & Olson, T. (1998). Nacocrinus elliotti, a New Pachylocrinid from the Naco Formation (Pennsylvanian, Desmoinesian) of Central Arizona. Journal of Paleontology, 72(3), 510-512. Webster, Gary; Elliott, David. (2004). New information on crinoids (Echinodermata) from the Pennsylvanian Naco Formation of central Arizona. The Mountain Geologist. 41. 77-86. 1 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 I have one of them : Mmm, that didn't work. Not sure it's of much help,though. Here's a link : https://www.researchgate.net/publication/252321735_New_information_on_crinoids_Echinodermata_from_the_Pennsylvanian_Naco_Formation_of_central_Arizona 1 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 Thanks Adam. I agree it does not look like any from Webster and Elliot 2004. My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentx Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 42 minutes ago, DPS Ammonite said: Are they even crinoids? I never saw any similar. These are unusual, to say the least. "Journey through a universe ablaze with changes" Phil Ochs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Sponge? Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentx Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 I'm looking for any 5 sided action here, but not seeing it. "Journey through a universe ablaze with changes" Phil Ochs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 This is Nacocrinus from the other Webster paper : 1 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Looks like some new type of fruit, try eating one. LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Nimravis said: Looks like some new type of fruit, try eating one. LOL It might be forbidden. Who knows what calamity will befall us. 2 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 Could these fossils be an internal mold of a crinoid head? I note that chertized brachiopods, crinoid columns and small horn corals all with their exteriors are present in the area. It seems a little odd that the exterior of a crinoid would not also be preserved. My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentx Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/jpaleontol/article-abstract/83/1/45/83775/pre-and-postmortem-skeletal-modifications-of-the?redirectedFrom=fulltext Here is plate of images from above article: 4 "Journey through a universe ablaze with changes" Phil Ochs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatinformationist Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Possible coral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentx Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 It is interesting that the crinoids in the above plate show symmetries other than the usual five. Pre and post mortem skeletal changes don't necessarily explain what's happened with regards to @DPS Ammonite's specimens except to show that some pathology may be present, as in figures 16, 17, 18, and 19. I'm suggesting there may be pathologies in these specimens. Another idea is there may have been some major environmental upheaval at an early stage of development which caused them to continue growing around a broken off piece whatever they were attached to. There are no cups visible and I don't see evidence of crinoid so not even sure what these are but I'm going with the initial suggestion here. Without the suggestion of crinoid, I would say the upper left specimen looks like a coral, possibly Cladochonus or similar. The upper right and lower left also look like immature corals but I'm not familiar with which they might be. The one at lower right almost looks like a ball that got rolled in disarticulated stems, but of what don't know. The big question for all these is, how did they get this ball form with no evidence of being attached to anything?. 1 "Journey through a universe ablaze with changes" Phil Ochs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I was finding something like this near Lake Murray in Oklahoma many years ago. I'll try to find some to post. I always thought they were some kind of coral but never found out. They look a little like a Devonian fossil found in Nevada and Arizona, Brachyphyllum woodmani. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentx Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 16 minutes ago, BobWill said: Brachyphyllum I hadn't thought of plant material. "Journey through a universe ablaze with changes" Phil Ochs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 14 minutes ago, Innocentx said: I hadn't thought of plant material. There's a genus of plant and coral named Brachyphyllum. I was thinking of the coral. It's the wrong age but maybe there's something similar from the Penn. Sorry! I'm spelling that wrong. It's Pachyphyllum woodmani. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I found these in the Pennsylvanian of Oklahoma. I assumed they were coral at the time but never posted them for an ID. Do these look the same? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, BobWill said: I found these in the Pennsylvanian of Oklahoma. I assumed they were coral at the time but never posted them for an ID. Do these look the same? Thanks Bob. They look real similar. What formation? What are they made of: calcium carbonate? What is scale? Anything similar from Jacksboro? My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 i don't know the formation around lake Murray but there were some of these right on the beach at the main park there. These range from 10 to 20mm across. I've never seen anything like this at Jacksboro or the other Texas Pennsylvanian sites. There are some images that show up for comparison if you google that corrected name above but I don't know what the closest thing from the Pennsylvanian would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I forgot to answer the other question. They are cream-colored and very hard and do not react to vinegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 18 minutes ago, BobWill said: I forgot to answer the other question. They are cream-colored and very hard and do not react to vinegar. What about a scratch test for hardness with a steel blade. My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 They leave a scratch on my pocket knife and the knife does not scratch them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, BobWill said: They leave a scratch on my pocket knife and the knife does not scratch them. Thanks, they are probably chert. Same as mine 1 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I can't find a usable geo map of OK to nail down the formation. We're so spoiled here in Texas. I'll bet you miss having detailed maps that even come with a booklet describing the exposures. Anything like that in AZ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimTexan Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 There are 3 Pennsylvanian formations around Lake Murray. Deese, Dornick Hills Group and Hoxbar Group. There is also Antlers Sand, but it’s Cretaceous. Oops Oscar Group on the far NE side of lake. Deese is most common covering whole West and south sides. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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