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Sonic0627

Real or fake raptor teeth

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Sonic0627

They are both about .5” and look real just want a second opinion. Thank you

90409B60-B382-440E-A20E-CC894DE1D6E0.jpeg

6640CF09-057F-4D58-849C-C7657E7BBB9E.jpeg

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Sonic0627

Well that’s a bummer my son really wanted a raptor tooth in his collection and these looked similar and size wise of ones I’ve seen. Of course that’s if I’m even looking at real raptor teeth from the start lol

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DLB

its Real in my opinion the second one looks raptor but its hard to distinguish without close ups of the serrations I  have a few they look just like this.

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DLB

And in the end either way there theropod definitely meat eaters still way cool.

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caldigger

I think Carch teeth are highly unappreciated. I like them! 

Just tell him Unky Doren says they are cool. That should change his perspective!

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Sonic0627

I highly agree with the both of you. Way cool. When my son asked for these for Xmas I was all about it. I wanted to be a paleontologist when I was his age. It’s better than games for the Xbox at least in my opinion lol and hopefully it will support his fascination with history and animals. If my kid turns out to be like Indiana Jones I’ll be a happy mom for sure! 

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Sonic0627
36 minutes ago, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

 

The second tooth, It is a theropod tooth but not a raptor. I'm assuming this tooth comes from Kem Kem beds, in Morocco. And I believe that this second tooth is from an Abelisaurid indet. :dinothumb:

 

For comparison, here is a tooth of a Abelisaurid dinosaur that is deposited in my private collection:

 

image.png.da6ab0b80b7e46ef6551d651d5e3c6e3.png

 

image.png.0db0b997c671f53d07618dfea9467bb5.png

 

image.png.bb71b2696622c6d1969445d6d3e67a2f.png

 

The vast majority of Kem Kem Beds "raptor" teeth are mislabeled Abelisaur teeth, but this does not mean that there are no Dromaeosaurids present in Kem Kem as there is occurrence yes but they are very rare.

This tooth is extremely similar with the teeth of the Dinosaur Abelisaurid Rugops primus from Niger. But unfortunately, for now, there is no scientific evidence to support the presence of this particular species in the Kem Kem Beds.

 

Good to know I would definitely say they are very similar to the info you posted and for future “raptor teeth” I’ll stay away from Kem Kem beds because these are from there. :doh!:

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bcfossilcollector
4 minutes ago, jpc said:

I am going to be nit picky and say that raptors have no teeth.  They are a group of carnivorous birds including owls, hawks eagles, etc.  It seems that many folks here consider dromaeosaurs to be 'raptors' because of Jurassic Park.  I am not a fan.  There is no such dinosaus as a 'raptor'. 

 

So we should decide what the interested kid wants for Xmas.  Is he using the term raptor in the way that I just railed against, or he using it to include all theropods, which I have also heard folks use?  Dromaeosaur teeth can be hard to come by.  Large theropod teeth form Morocco are a dime a dozen.  

 

Thanks for listening.  I will leave this for others to yell at me about.  

 

 

No yelling jpc. Actually very accurate observation. I sometimes think that there is a specific interest in perhaps acquiring a velociraptor tooth. Unfortunately, Jurassic Park sort of got the depiction of that particular dinosaur wrong as well. Now that you mention it, Dromaeosaur teeth are somewhat difficult to come by. At least nice ones!

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LordTrilobite
7 hours ago, Sonic0627 said:

They are both about .5” and look real just want a second opinion. Thank you

90409B60-B382-440E-A20E-CC894DE1D6E0.jpeg6640CF09-057F-4D58-849C-C7657E7BBB9E.jpeg

These are real teeth, so don't worry about that.

 

As the others have already said though, for various reasons, these are not raptor teeth. Raptors/Dromaeosaurs have recurved teeth that generally have larger serrations on the back edge.

 

I think both of these teeth are from indeterminate Abelisaurids. I don't think either of them are Carcharodontosaurid. Though I'm not completely sure about the shorter tooth. A photo of the underside of the shorter tooth might give more info whether it is or isn't. Carcharodontosaurid teeth tend to be a bit wider/fatter at the base than those of Abelisaurids.

 

Here are a few 3D examples for comparison. Though mind you that the Carcharodontosaurid teeth here are much larger and thus harder to directly compare.

 

 

3 hours ago, jpc said:

I am going to be nit picky and say that raptors have no teeth.  They are a group of carnivorous birds including owls, hawks eagles, etc.  It seems that many folks here consider dromaeosaurs to be 'raptors' because of Jurassic Park.  I am not a fan.  There is no such dinosaus as a 'raptor'. 

 

So we should decide what the interested kid wants for Xmas.  Is he using the term raptor in the way that I just railed against, or he using it to include all theropods, which I have also heard folks use?  Dromaeosaur teeth can be hard to come by.  Large theropod teeth form Morocco are a dime a dozen.  

 

Thanks for listening.  I will leave this for others to yell at me about. 

While you are entirely correct. I think just like Brontosaurus, before the name was properly reinstated, the word raptor has become so entrenched that I don't see it going away.

 

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Sonic0627

According to the seller of the teeth they are Dromaesaur however I can’t argue with the info given in this thread that it’s probably not raptor. And yes my son is thinking Jurassic Park style raptor tooth. He was shocked when I informed him that they were more like birds. I got him these teeth, a spinosaurus tooth, and a fossilized mako and Megalodon tooth. 

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Sonic0627

So what do you all think of these ones I found?

I think the light one is still a Carcharodontosaurus  but the darker one shows the larger serrations on the back 

 

Capture1.PNG

Capture2.PNG

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Abstraktum

I just leave this for comparison. My two Abelisauridae indet teeth from Morocco.

 

20180903_185211.thumb.jpg.56a22af5643a023aebfa44609b714bde.jpg

 

6640CF09-057F-4D58-849C-C7657E7BBB9E.jpeg20180922_161405.thumb.jpg.d3a89a4f04f74ec427158e07cbff9b0c.jpg

 

90409B60-B382-440E-A20E-CC894DE1D6E0.jpeg20180922_161458.thumb.jpg.b0d0f47836710a7ec3c7c0d2afd7fae3.jpg

 

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The Amateur Paleontologist
On 21/09/2018 at 2:53 AM, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

this does not mean that there are no Dromaeosaurids present in Kem Kem as there is occurrence yes but they are very rare.

@Seguidora-de-Isis Wait wait wait a minute. you mean there actually is a record of Dromaeosauridae from the Kem Kem?? Any papers? I'd love to find out more :)

-Christian

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Seguidora-de-Isis
45 minutes ago, The Amateur Paleontologist said:

@Seguidora-de-Isis Wait wait wait a minute. you mean there actually is a record of Dromaeosauridae from the Kem Kem?? Any papers? I'd love to find out more :)

-Christian

 

In fact, nothing has yet been published about any kind of Dromaeosauridae at Kem Kem. But it is not because a material has not yet been published or scientifically described which means it can not exist. I can assure you that there is, in private collections, more than enough rumors to make us reflect on the possible existence of Dromaeosaurids at Kem Kem.

 

image.png.571a1cdedaddee2762f2b100154f266f.png

@hxmendoza

 

image.png.94cdded461ee6a9dabdb7f4def499f01.png

@Troodon

 

image.png.c2e6c465f34d7f1c7b66575f54120ab3.png

 

image.png.949ab91d5fa670688cd702a4b66af331.png

 

@LordTrilobite

 

So with so many rumors, I do not believe the claim that there are no Dromaeosaurids in Kem Kem's beds is correct, but rather that there is no published material.

 

By the way. I agree with our friend LordTrilobite, because I am also not sure that the smaller tooth that was here posted by our friend Sonic0627 is from Carcharodontosaurid. There really is a possibility that both teeth are Abelisaurids. For a really precise ID to comparison with denticle count, denticle morphology, cross-section morphology, tooth crown height ratios etc is needed...

 

Let us hope that someday we will have a better understanding of what Kem Kem really was, and that private collections may someday be as valued as public ones are.

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The Amateur Paleontologist

@Seguidora-de-Isis Thanks for that, that was really informative. I just think that some of that material does deserve to be described :)

-Christian

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Seguidora-de-Isis
14 minutes ago, The Amateur Paleontologist said:

@Seguidora-de-Isis Thanks for that, that was really informative. I just think that some of that material does deserve to be described :)

-Christian

 

You are welcome, my friend Christian. :D

 

In fact, modern paleontology no longer publishes a new species based on an isolated tooth or bone as it was done in the past. Currently a new species is described based on cranial material. Let us hope that a future not too distant, new discoveries will be made.  :dinothumb:

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The Amateur Paleontologist
 
1 minute ago, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

modern paleontology no longer publishes a new species based on an isolated tooth or bone as it was done in the past

That's true, but aren't there still occasional papers that go along the line of 'an isolated tooth of [...] from the [...] of [...]'?

Anyways, I'm all with you in hoping for some nice dromaeo skull material from the Kem Kem.. Love the idea ;)

-Christian

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Seguidora-de-Isis
16 minutes ago, The Amateur Paleontologist said:
 

That's true, but aren't there still occasional papers that go along the line of 'an isolated tooth of [...] from the [...] of [...]'?

Anyways, I'm all with you in hoping for some nice dromaeo skull material from the Kem Kem.. Love the idea ;)

-Christian

 

As far as I know, there is no paper on Kem Kem Dromaeosaurids that refer to teeth. It will not even be necessary to discover some nice cranial material, only a good cranial material identifiable fragment would help a lot. But yes, I have not the slightest doubt of the occurrence of Dromaeosaurids in Kem Kem, but it is a material of relative rarity due to the fragility of the specimens Added to an extremely hostile paleoambiente.

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