Permian Ryan formation

[Still_human]

Does anyone know what the Ryan formation is? Is it a terrestrial site, or aquatic? What vertebrates are found there?

[Still_human]

It comes up a few times in searches, but it always ends up being about Permian basins and such, and as general geology, but not anything specific, and not about fossils. The reoccurring site that mentions it specifically, is just a fossil retail site that just mentions certain things are from the Ryan formation. From that, I'm guessing it includes a sort of swampy area, but also things that aren't swampy creatures, so I'm back to being confused again. I believe this came up awhile back in another thread, but I can't remember or find it. Do formations generally support just a single ecosystem, or do they cover multiple types? Like being swampy, but another part of the formation might be forest, or desert. Either from just being large enough, or exposing different evolved ecosystems on the same spot? 

[siteseer]

On 9/29/2018 at 2:00 PM, Still_human said:

Does anyone know what the Ryan formation is? Is it a terrestrial site, or aquatic? What vertebrates are found there?

 

When I started buying fossils from Geological Enterprises in the late 80's, nearly all of their Early Permian specimens from Oklahoma had a label that said "Ryan Formation."  The man who ran GE was the late Allen Graffham, and since he was a geologist and the company was based in OK, I assume the formation name was correct at the time.  It is my understanding that the Ryan is now considered a bed within the Wellington Formation but it might have been what the Wellington was called back then. 

 

I obtained a number of vertebrate fossils from there: Dimetrodon, Captorhinus, Diadectes, Eryops, Trimerorhachis, and xenacanth shark teeth.  That makes it a river deposit most likely.  I would ask @dinodigger

[jdp]

Yes, the Ryan Sandstone is technically part of the Wellington Formation, which is a lowland continental system dominated by seasonal ponds, mudflats, etc.

 

Typically a formation will represent a range of vaguely similar environments within a geographic area. In the case of the Wellington, it represents lowland terrestrial environments, including rivers, ponds, swamps, and savannah-like deposits. So this is probably vaguely associated with a river system or delta.

[Still_human]

3 hours ago, siteseer said:

 

When I started buying fossils from Geological Enterprises in the late 80's, nearly all of their Early Permian specimens from Oklahoma had a label that said "Ryan Formation."  The man who ran GE was the late Allen Graffham, and since he was a geologist and the company was based in OK, I assume the formation name was correct at the time.  It is my understanding that the Ryan is now considered a bed within the Wellington Formation but it might have been what the Wellington was called back then. 

 

I obtained a number of vertebrate fossils from there: Dimetrodon, Captorhinus, Diadectes, Eryops, Trimerorhachis, and xenacanth shark teeth.  That makes it a river deposit most likely.  I would ask @dinodigger

 

2 hours ago, jdp said:

Yes, the Ryan Sandstone is technically part of the Wellington Formation, which is a lowland continental system dominated by seasonal ponds, mudflats, etc.

 

Typically a formation will represent a range of vaguely similar environments within a geographic area. In the case of the Wellington, it represents lowland terrestrial environments, including rivers, ponds, swamps, and savannah-like deposits. So this is probably vaguely associated with a river system or delta.

Thank you guys very much! Thank you for responding, and for the awesome info! It's a huge help, and i doubt I would have ever found out on my own--I sure wasn't making any progress.

[Still_human]

 

On 10/13/2018 at 11:02 AM, siteseer said:

 

When I started buying fossils from Geological Enterprises in the late 80's, nearly all of their Early Permian specimens from Oklahoma had a label that said "Ryan Formation."  The man who ran GE was the late Allen Graffham, and since he was a geologist and the company was based in OK, I assume the formation name was correct at the time.  It is my understanding that the Ryan is now considered a bed within the Wellington Formation but it might have been what the Wellington was called back then. 

 

I obtained a number of vertebrate fossils from there: Dimetrodon, Captorhinus, Diadectes, Eryops, Trimerorhachis, and xenacanth shark teeth.  That makes it a river deposit most likely.  I would ask @dinodigger

There is some formation, and I want to say Ryan, that was unusual for being I guess a standard Permian site, but oddly with almost no dimetrodon--only a tiny amount of very young ones. I guess the site is comparable to ones that dimetrodon are common to because it was of particular note of being unusual. I can't find the info which was brought up on almost every site about that formation with a search, so it's very possible it was a different formation, but I still want to say it was Ryan. Is that familiar to anyone? You said you had obtained dimetrodon from Ryan, were they small individuals? Do you know if the dimetrodon fossils available from there were particularly limited?

 

[Fossildude19]

Maybe the Waurika, OK. site?

[Still_human]

GERALDINE! The Geraldine bone bed in Texas.....I was way off!

[jdp]

There's also almost no Dimetrodon at Ft. Sill/Richard's Spur/Dolese.

[Anomotodon]

Quick google search shows that it is actually part of Wellington formation, Oklahoma (Ryan sandstone bed)

https://mrdata.usgs.gov/geology/state/sgmc-unit.php?unit=OKPw%3B0

[Still_human]

6 hours ago, jdp said:

There's also almost no Dimetrodon at Ft. Sill/Richard's Spur/Dolese.

Thank you, that may come in very handy!

[Still_human]

5 hours ago, Anomotodon said:

Quick google search shows that it is actually part of Wellington formation, Oklahoma (Ryan sandstone bed)

https://mrdata.usgs.gov/geology/state/sgmc-unit.php?unit=OKPw%3B0

Thank you very much:) that's what Ive heard. One thing someone wasn't sure, i believe because of his long ago previous experience with Ryan and it's fossils, although I'm not sure exactly what brings him to the question, which is if Ryan was a previous name for Wellington itself, since changed, nore specifically MOSTLY changed to being the Wellington formation, including Ryan as a smaller part, or if it has always been just the smaller part of Wellington.

*i hope I haven't misinterpreted the question--you can look up at the first couple response to this thread, and see exactly how it is put.