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Davidevi82

Real moroccan trilobites?

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Davidevi82

Hi all, i contacted a seller from morocco and he sent me these trilo photos.

Watching fine details like eyes etc they seem real but i'm newby and i prefer to ask you.

Can you also tell me the average price for that species?

 

thank you

 

 

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Bobby Rico
2 minutes ago, Davidevi82 said:

Can you also tell me the average price for that species?

Welcome to TFF

 Sorry we do not do valuations on the forum it is  though of as taboo . I can’t help you with the question real or fake but @Kane or @Fossildude19 will be able too. Good luck Bobby 

 

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aeon.rocks

Real and very very nice specimens of Moroccops (used to be named Barrandeops) and Hollardops! Professionaly prepared... but commercially!

 

Regarding the value question: I will just say easily close to 20 hours of careful prep time (or more) in each of those specimens, although it would be interesting to see the value estimations and perhaps compare rates to the rates of professionaly preped trilobites elsewhere. ;)

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Fossildude19
1 hour ago, Davidevi82 said:

 

Can you also tell me the average price for that species?

 

 

I agree these are real, and very nice specimens.

For prices, you should compare with similar examples online at commercial websites. 

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FranzBernhard
10 minutes ago, aeon.rocks said:

Real and very very nice specimens

But they are so glossy! They look like polished in some parts. Or at least totally coated with something. For my personal taste - too much! But I know, I am somewhat special... ;).

Franz Bernhard

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aeon.rocks
1 hour ago, FranzBernhard said:

But they are so glossy! They look like polished in some parts. Or at least totally coated with something. For my personal taste - too much! But I know, I am somewhat special... ;).

Franz Bernhard

 

Coated, but you can see the details and sometimes coating is just done to enhance visual appearance (ie, see some details clearer) or protect.... Sometimes to hide restoration, but doubt this is the case here. These bugs are very carefully prepared and with most details preserved. Most of the shine could be due to photo, I am sure these look a lot better and different in hand... Bad pics... Anyway, coating can be easily removed (with lab equipment) and depends on personal taste.

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Bobby Rico
12 minutes ago, aeon.rocks said:

 

Coated, but you can see the details and sometimes coating is just done to enhance visual appearance (ie, see some details clearer) or protect.... Most of the shine could be due to photo, I am sure looks a lot better and different in hand... Anyway, coating can be removed and depends on personal taste.

I think they use shoe polish sometimes. 

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Davidevi82
26 minutes ago, aeon.rocks said:

 

Coated, but you can see the details and sometimes coating is just done to enhance visual appearance (ie, see some details clearer) or protect.... Most of the shine could be due to photo, I am sure looks a lot better and different in hand... Anyway, coating can be removed and depends on personal taste.

How can be removed if it's shoe polish?

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aeon.rocks

Shoe polish... :PAnd prepared with hammer and nails right? :D 

 

Not on these bugs imo. Imho these come from a professional lab with very expensive toys and prep standards in such labs in Morocco are just as good as in the west... Maybe better! No shoe polish... ;)

 

Of course not everyone in Morocco can afford expensive tools and it’s not reasonable to prep for free, so not all trilobites are professionaly prepared... ;) 

 

“How can be removed if it's shoe polish?” How do you remove it from shoes? :P 

 

Seriously? Not every moroccan bug is coated in shoe polish and prepared with nails! 

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Bobby Rico
13 minutes ago, Davidevi82 said:

How can be removed if it's shoe polish?

Don’t worry now wait to see them yourself, 

 

11 minutes ago, aeon.rocks said:

Shoe polish... :PAnd prepared with hammer and nails right? :D 

Is that sarcasm? I have been told by Tidgy’s dad how lives in Morocco and is very knowing member that they use shoe polish. I uses bees wax on my ammonites. :P so not to hard to imagine.

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aeon.rocks

Is this one 3D printed or coated with shoe polish too? 

A22D288F-7008-48AE-A69F-AD53AE10ED96.jpeg

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Walt
25 minutes ago, Bobby Rico said:

I think they use shoe polish sometimes. 

There does appear to be some color added....but that does not take away from the specimen.  Looks fantastic!

 

image.png.a9d8daa0cb335a70600c1bc4870ac330.png

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Bobby Rico
1 minute ago, aeon.rocks said:

Is this one 3D printed or coated with shoe polish too? 

A22D288F-7008-48AE-A69F-AD53AE10ED96.jpeg

 

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aeon.rocks

Just saying not every moroccan bug is fake or coated with shoe polish, even if prepared in Morocco! :)

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Bobby Rico
3 hours ago, aeon.rocks said:

Just saying not every moroccan bug is fake or coated with shoe polish, even if prepared in Morocco! :)

I did not says that at all or anything like that. 

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Kane
3 hours ago, aeon.rocks said:

Just saying not every moroccan bug is fake or coated with shoe polish, even if prepared in Morocco! :)

And no one here said all Moroccan trilobites are fake or coated with shoe polish. Some of them are coated with shoe polish, in which case it is a fair question to ask on how to remove it. 

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aeon.rocks

Doesn’t matter if coated with lack, oil, wax, vazeline, hair spray, floor varnish, shoe varnish etc. Unless it’s consolidating coating, it’s always for esthetic reasons... Not typical for moroccan trilobites only. Besides other fossils, almost all Russian bugs in the market used to be coated with some type floor polish, not shoe polish, but same thing, and still considered natural fossils. Even if the bug has no coating it’s usually sandblasted with bicarb to make skin look nicer and a bit shiny...  

 

You can blast any paint or coating off with bicarb... Or rub it with toothbrush and acetone... Same as removing colors, but you might make a mess... So don’t, unless you have experience or a good reason to answer the question why damage a perfectly nice real&natural trilo like that... Are you purchasing and collecting trilobites for scientific study?

 

Walt, could be, but i guess aluoxi was used to prep pygidium freestanding - possibly thats some burned shell and coating was not applied carefully. Probably (could be) also it was coated to hide the dulled gray skin (which sandblasting with aluoxi makes) or hide some hits... These tend to have a sticky skin due to microgranulation, so after many hours of needle prep skin is sandblasted for finish. In any case, nice authentic bug!

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FranzBernhard
1 hour ago, aeon.rocks said:

sandblasted with bicarb to make skin look nicer and a bit shiny...

Thank you very much for your comprehensive explanations! I know nothing about trilo-prep, but I have read that it is a really difficult task, to get out as much detail as possible and on the other hand don´t overprep it (destroy the fine detail). Skill, patience, experience, dedication - all of them are needed!

And now I unterstand, where the shine comes from. Thanks!
Franz Bernhard

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aeon.rocks
23 hours ago, FranzBernhard said:

Thank you very much for your comprehensive explanations! I know nothing about trilo-prep, but I have read that it is a really difficult task, to get out as much detail as possible and on the other hand don´t overprep it (destroy the fine detail). Skill, patience, experience, dedication - all of them are needed!

And now I unterstand, where the shine comes from. Thanks!
Franz Bernhard

 

The shine here comes from coating. Don’t mix this shine on pics... with the look you get from abrasives. Also, in some cases no abrasives are used and no coatings in preparation...

 

So as you read: “I have read that it is a really difficult task, to get out as much detail as possible and on the other hand don´t overprep it (destroy the fine detail). Skill, patience, experience, dedication - all of them are needed!”

 

All that said is correct!

 

And all this is true for moroccan trilobites presented here. A lot of skills and experience was needed to prep a Hollardops like that in a quick enough way to sell it cheap! Still probably around 20 hours! Difficult to get out more details... But keep in mind that almost all commercialy prepared trilobites are overpreped or very expensive, with Morocco as the only exception in terms of effort, skills and prep time needed vs value...

 

Devonian Moroccan bugs are not the easiests trilobites to prep, but for sure are priced like they were just picked up and washed. Also because a lot of people don't understand. If you want i can put it like this: If this was done for commerce in USA or Russia and if Hollardops was an American or Russian common found trilobite specie it would be priced around 500$-1000$ easily just according to prep time! Prepared no better than that. ;) 

 

But ok, how often you can find a complete bug plays a role too. And not all Moroccan bugs are found complete like this either. A lot of preselection of unprepared material there!

 

Trilobites from some localities are easy to prep, and trilobites from some localities are more difficult, trilobites from some localities take less time to prep, and trilobites from some localities a lot more... There are differences! Even using a different abrasive will give a different result. A lot also depends on each specie, layer it was found in and other... Some take special tricks to prep, most just a lot of time to remove hard matrix with airscribes and only short sandblast for finish, some are best prepared just with sandblasting... And since there was a question regarding average price, if you keep all mentioned factors in mind: price always depends on quality, but whatever the average price of any species of Moroccan trilobite - it's undervalued compared to most other bugs!

 

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