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RyanDye

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Just got back from the Orlando Fossil Fair 2018, I bought some nice fossils but many were not identified and I want to confirm ID's for ones that were. There's a lot of fossils so I'll label each one with information and my own opinon on them. All the fossils shown are allegedly carnivores and found in the Suwannee River in Florida (excluding two of them).

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The furthest on the left will be #1, and the furthest on the right will be #4. I'm not convinced that 1 is a carnivore but besides that I don't have any hypothesis on what the others could be.

 

 

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The left one in this picture is 5, the one on the right is 6. Five reminds me of a bear, and I don't have any idea what 6 is or if it's even a carnivore.

 

 

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The tooth will be 7 the jaw will be 8, both are allegedly dire wolves (they're not associated) from 'Northern Florida', I don't have an exact locality unfortunately. I suspect these both belong to dire wolves.

 

 

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The furthest left will be 9, and the furthest right is 11. I suspect 9 and 10 to be racoon teeth, but I'm not sure if racoons are found in the Suwannee river. At first I thought 11 was a canid, but after looking at it for awhile it looks more like a feline.

 

 

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This last specimen will be 12, right now I'm stuck between a primitive canid (possibly leptocyon) a feline, or some sort of fox. This specimen was also found in the Suwannee, like the rest except the dire wolves. If you need more pictures I can take some and post them within the hour. Thanks in advance!

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@Harry Pristis is your go-to man, he knows all about this stuff. 

 

Otherwise I more or less agree with most of the guesses you've made so far, but I'm no expert on the subject.

 

Nice purchases :) 

Max Derème

 

"I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day."

   - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier

 

Instagram: @world_of_fossils

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8 hours ago, Max-fossils said:

@Harry Pristis is your go-to man, he knows all about this stuff. 

 

Otherwise I more or less agree with most of the guesses you've made so far, but I'm no expert on the subject.

 

Nice purchases :) 

Thanks :D

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Forgot to mention, apparently the fossils from the Suwannee (all of them excluding the dire wolf specimens) were found in a sinkhole underwater, just thought I'd mention it.

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Also, after staring at all of these a bit longer I think they're all from canids. As far as I know there weren't bears or felines at the Suwannee River site, (I could be wrong) and different subfamilies of canids had very different dental structure. I still can't classify them to any group more specific than family. :headscratch:Maybe @PrehistoricFlorida can help?

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Certainly, bear and cat fossils are to be found in the Suwannee.  Your second group of teeth are bear and an upper molar of a canid.  Your last image (jaw with two shattered teeth) appears to be cat (p4 - p3).  I am uncertain of the dimensions based on your images, but the cat could be a  species smaller than jaguar, a bobcat for example.

 

 

bear black jaw.jpg

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http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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20 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

Certainly, bear and cat fossils are to be found in the Suwannee.  Your teeth in the first image are bear and an upper molar of a canid.  Your last image (jaw with two shattered teeth) appears to be cat (p4 - p3).  I am uncertain of the dimensions based on your images, but the cat could be a  species smaller than jaguar, a bobcat for example.

I think you mean the second image? My first image had four canines (teeth), my second image was what you said was a bear and canid, assuming you just missed it could you take a look at those as well? First of all, thank you for the information I greatly appreciate it, but I have a few questions. Do you agree that 7 and 8 are dire wolves? Should I take some better photos of the cat jaw? And lastly, what about the second-to-last picture? So far from your ID's I'm really glad I decided to purchase this at the fair, besides the dire wolf specimens I got all of this for $30, lately I've been doing a lot of research on canids so it's really exciting to have gotten a coyote molar along with my dire wolf (assuming that's what they are) fossils. Once again, thanks a lot, I hope the cat jaw turns out to be a jaguar. :D

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31 minutes ago, RyanDye said:

I think you mean the second image? My first image had four canines (teeth), my second image was what you said was a bear and canid, assuming you just missed it could you take a look at those as well? First of all, thank you for the information I greatly appreciate it, but I have a few questions. Do you agree that 7 and 8 are dire wolves? Should I take some better photos of the cat jaw? And lastly, what about the second-to-last picture? So far from your ID's I'm really glad I decided to purchase this at the fair, besides the dire wolf specimens I got all of this for $30, lately I've been doing a lot of research on canids so it's really exciting to have gotten a coyote molar along with my dire wolf (assuming that's what they are) fossils. Once again, thanks a lot, I hope the cat jaw turns out to be a jaguar. :D

 

I do mean your second group of teeth. . . I'll have to edit that post.

 

If you had brought your fossils to my table at the Orlando show, I might have opined on some of these other things.  I don't know if your upper molar is coyote or dire wolf . . . size is important.  Get yourself a caliper ($10 or less at Harbor Freight) and provide actual measurement in millimeters.  Length and width of the crown is what is important.  Images of the occlusal surfaces (alveolae in the edentulous jaw) are crucial for identification, except for canines.  I'm pretty sure your cat is a smaller species, but measurements will confirm that.

 

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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31 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

 

I do mean your second group of teeth. . . I'll have to edit that post.

 

If you had brought your fossils to my table at the Orlando show, I might have opined on some of these other things.  I don't know if your upper molar is coyote or dire wolf . . . size is important.  Get yourself a caliper ($10 or less at Harbor Freight) and provide actual measurement in millimeters.  Length and width of the crown is what is important.  Images of the occlusal surfaces (alveolae in the edentulous jaw) are crucial for identification, except for canines.  I'm pretty sure your cat is a smaller species, but measurements will confirm that.

 

I'll definitely buy one, with all the teeth specimens I have it would probably be wise to record measurements with that on all my fossil teeth. Also when I said dire wolf I was referring to these specimens:

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Do you have any clue what these came from?20181020_155046.thumb.jpg.b96f57f2c244e1d7b12b1f34a2e7229c.jpg20181020_154414.thumb.jpg.420a7cb0b5221b3b47f20dac09e69ef6.jpg

I'll get some better pictures on the cat and the wolf, but I wasn't sure if you also meant the other non canine teeth since you didn't say anything about them. What was at your table at the show, just wondering if I saw you and didn't realize it.

 

I think you were right about the canid molar being coyote, while I get we can't be sure without proper measurements, out of curiosity I compared the molars in my modern coyote skull with the fossilized one, and they were very similar in size and structure.

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30 minutes ago, RyanDye said:

Do you have any clue what these came from?20181020_154414.thumb.jpg.420a7cb0b5221b3b47f20dac09e69ef6.jpg

Canines are not easy to identify... you need multiple photos of each filling the photo.. Lacking better photos, 1) Whale or large dolphin, dolphin, Camel wolf tooth, ?????

The White Queen  ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

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1 hour ago, RyanDye said:

I'll definitely buy one, with all the teeth specimens I have it would probably be wise to record measurements with that on all my fossil teeth. Also when I said dire wolf I was referring to these specimens:

 

Do you have any clue what these came from?20181020_155046.thumb.jpg.b96f57f2c244e1d7b12b1f34a2e7229c.jpgI'll get some better pictures on the cat and the wolf, but I wasn't sure if you also meant the other non canine teeth since you didn't say anything about them. What was at your table at the show, just wondering if I saw you and didn't realize it.

 

I think you were right about the canid molar being coyote, while I get we can't be sure without proper measurements, out of curiosity I compared the molars in my modern coyote skull with the fossilized one, and they were very similar in size and structure.

 

For comparison:

 

otter_teeth_drawing.JPG.d5e813bd730276d8123d60a338071316.JPGraccoonhumerusmandible.JPG.84b71e9741281f54c44fd03c394fe2ce.JPGraccoonmaxillaryteeth.JPG.f9c9cc45b4e9d40cd5c8ff21af44d318.JPG

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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1 hour ago, Shellseeker said:

Canines are not easy to identify... you need multiple photos of each filling the photo.. Lacking better photos, 1) Whale or large dolphin, dolphin, Camel wolf tooth, ?????

I'll take some detailed photos, I just took bare-minimum pics to start with since there was so many, now that we've identified quite a few it will be easier. I'll post mm measurements when I get a caliper. Also I should of mentioned this earlier, the last 'canine' is hollow I think, that might be why it looks so odd, perhaps it isn't a canine at all.

 

18 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

For comparison:

Thanks, I guess that caliper would also help with these too. So far so good, all of the suspects have been carnivores, if you count omnivores as carnivorous too anyways.

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