Still_human Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 What's the deal with so many pterosaur teeth, yet just about every single one(every single one Ive ever seen or heard of, although im assuming other people may have heard of or seen other species)is Coloborhynchus! That just seems improbable....in fact it seems almost impossible. Tons of pterosaurs had teeth, tons of teeth are around, but ONLY from Colobos??? That can't be right. Also, I know that a species can have different shaped teeth, but APPARENTLY colobo teeth come in every shape and size(and width/height ratio, and angle, and curve, and every possible variable). Im not going to say these absolutely CANT all be from coloborhynchus, they have to be from other pterosaurs or animals, but....these can't possibly all be from just coloborhynchus, can they??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 These are just some of the 19 variations I was able to quickly pull from a cursory google search. I couldn't line them all up and look at them all at once, so there might be a couple out of all of them that are pretty much the same, but at least almost all have a difference. I don't think I used any pictures on here twice. ill put more up if needed. Many of the variations are slight, like the point of the angle, the actual angle, the angles curve or lack of, and a lot look the same but the ratio of height/width is off. Also, the difference between dino, and other animals species teeth, close species or not, are as small and even smaller than the differences between any of the ones I came across. I know there can be plenty of variation within a species, from size, age, even within the same jaw, but I feel like there's just way too many to all be from a single species. Can all the many many many variations realistically be all from coloborhynchus??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomotodon Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 This one is a Cladocyclus fish tooth (Ichthyodectiform, relative of Aidachar and Xiphactinus), they are somewhat similar to pterosaurs but are less compressed and have different enamel. Siroccopteryx is the most common pterosaur sold is just because fossils from Kem Kem are much more common on the market than from other locations (there also might be other species of toothed pterosaurs from there). Pterosaurs also had weak heterodonty, all of the other teeth above look pterosaur The Tooth Fairy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantoraptor Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Anomotodon said: This one is a Cladocyclus fish tooth (Ichthyodectiform, relative of Aidachar and Xiphactinus) I tought C. pankowskii was replaced in the genus Aidachar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manticocerasman Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 last summer we found a few pterosaur teeth on Isle of wight. Natalie entered the best specimen for fotm. we sent the pics to local museums and it was identified as a tooth of a Ornithocheirid pterosaur ( either Coloborynchus or Caulkicephalus ) growing old is mandatory but growing up is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomotodon Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 3 hours ago, gigantoraptor said: I tought C. pankowskii was replaced in the genus Aidachar? Yes, you are right, my bad, it's Aidachar pankowskii now. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0125786 http://www.zin.ru/journals/trudyzin/doc/vol_315_2/TZ_315_2_Mhitaryan.pdf The Tooth Fairy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 12 hours ago, Anomotodon said: This one is a Cladocyclus fish tooth (Ichthyodectiform, relative of Aidachar and Xiphactinus), they are somewhat similar to pterosaurs but are less compressed and have different enamel. Siroccopteryx is the most common pterosaur sold is just because fossils from Kem Kem are much more common on the market than from other locations (there also might be other species of toothed pterosaurs from there). Pterosaurs also had weak heterodonty, all of the other teeth above look pterosaur Yeah, that's what I figured MUST be the case, which would be the only way to explain even a fraction of them all being from the same species, but doesn't it still seem like way too many variations for a single species? It almost seems like with the amount of variations, each of their teeth would be a totally different variant lol! does anyone else understand what I mean? Even if they DID all look about the same, i would think it was strange that they were all from just 1 out of the many different species, probably many of which in the same area and with the same habits and habitats. Search pterosaur tooth on the popular auction site, and scroll through tons, and it just looks weird seeing the same name listed on every single one! As was pointed out above, with one being from a fish there are some misidentifications here and there, but even so...! It can't just all be in my head, can it? Are there any other tooth situations like this? An excessive amount attributed to just a single species? Even mosasaur teeth are attributed to many different mosasaur species, even though I personally think that most of them look exactly the same(not all of them), or are at LEAST exactly alike within the very tiny area of variation for an individual species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 7 hours ago, Manticocerasman said: last summer we found a few pterosaur teeth on Isle of wight. Natalie entered the best specimen for fotm. we sent the pics to local museums and it was identified as a tooth of a Ornithocheirid pterosaur ( either Coloborynchus or Caulkicephalus ) Oh wow, a new pterosaur name!!!!! Is there any way to even verify which it is? I'd imagine not, but I would be so happy to hear a verified "new" species:D also, those are such impressive finds!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manticocerasman Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 41 minutes ago, Still_human said: Oh wow, a new pterosaur name!!!!! Is there any way to even verify which it is? I'd imagine not, but I would be so happy to hear a verified "new" species:D also, those are such impressive finds!!!!!!!!!! Caulkicephalus was described at the hand of a partial skull found on IOW. But isolated teeth are hard to assess to a genus or a species. growing old is mandatory but growing up is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Manticocerasman said: Caulkicephalus was described at the hand of a partial skull found on IOW. But isolated teeth are hard to assess to a genus or a species. Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. Especially when an specific species can have such varied looking teeth. But it just seems that if there are lots of teeth that are really varied, that they could be attributed to multiple different similar toothed species in the area, instead of all just to a single species. I would imagine there are almost definitely multiple toothed pterosaurs in at least most places of the period, if not all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 Is there any legitimate reason that people ID all these very different looking teeth to a single species? Wouldn't that be exactly the same as attributing every single loose mosasaur tooth of all sizes and shapes, as being from a single species? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantoraptor Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 5 hours ago, Still_human said: Is there any legitimate reason that people ID all these very different looking teeth to a single species? Wouldn't that be exactly the same as attributing every single loose mosasaur tooth of all sizes and shapes, as being from a single species? That's because there is only one species of toothed pterosaur described at this location, Siroccopteryx moroccensis. The only other known pterosaurs here are Alanqa saharica and Xericeps curvirostris. None of these had teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 11 hours ago, gigantoraptor said: That's because there is only one species of toothed pterosaur described at this location, Siroccopteryx moroccensis. The only other known pterosaurs here are Alanqa saharica and Xericeps curvirostris. None of these had teeth. Oh really? Wow, I guess I should have looked that up first! That's really surprising to me, I thought it was common for many pterosaur species to overlap home ranges. what about Coloborhynchus, is that the only toothed species in its entire home range(s)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantoraptor Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Still_human said: Oh really? Wow, I guess I SHOULD have looked that up first! That's really surprising to me, I thought it was common for many pterosaur species to overlap home ranges. what about Coloborhynchus, is that the only toothed species in its entire home range(s)? Not exactly. There is evidence for a lot more species, but without enough fossils from them or an at least partial skeleton it will be hard to describe them. There is at least evidence for the following species or families: - Alanqa saharica (No teeth) - Xericeps curvirostris (no teeth) - Siroccopteryx moroccensis (Teeth) - Tapejaridae indet. (No teeth) - Ornithocheiridae indet. (Teeth) - Pteranodontidae indet. (No teeth) - Azhdarchidae indet. (No teeth) - Dsungaripteroidea indet. (Teeth) There might be even more, but these are all I know of. Pterosaur fossils are extremely fragille because of their hollow bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantoraptor Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Oh, I forgot to mention, there is a second toothed pterosaur described in the Kem Kem Beds recently. It's named Coloborhynchus fluviferox and is an Ornithocheirid. I don't know yet if there is any difference between the teeth of Coloborhynchus fluviferox and Siroccopteryx moroccensis since I don't have the paper yet. It's only described since last month or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/2/2018 at 3:25 PM, gigantoraptor said: Not exactly. There is evidence for a lot more species, but without enough fossils from them or an at least partial skeleton it will be hard to describe them. There is at least evidence for the following species or families: - Alanqa saharica (No teeth) - Xericeps curvirostris (no teeth) - Siroccopteryx moroccensis (Teeth) - Tapejaridae indet. (No teeth) - Ornithocheiridae indet. (Teeth) - Pteranodontidae indet. (No teeth) - Azhdarchidae indet. (No teeth) - Dsungaripteroidea indet. (Teeth) There might be even more, but these are all I know of. Pterosaur fossils are extremely fragille because of their hollow bones. On 11/2/2018 at 3:30 PM, gigantoraptor said: Oh, I forgot to mention, there is a second toothed pterosaur described in the Kem Kem Beds recently. It's named Coloborhynchus fluviferox and is an Ornithocheirid. I don't know yet if there is any difference between the teeth of Coloborhynchus fluviferox and Siroccopteryx moroccensis since I don't have the paper yet. It's only described since last month or so. I'm sorry, am i just totally missing something, or does it seem absolutely silly and naive to ignore all the other toothed species, and label everything as just coloborhynchus & siroccopteryx? *thank you for bringing sirocce up, i have seen the same situation with siroccopteryx too, so now I have to include that other species as 1 of TWO species that all the teeth are labeled as. My point remains, but it doesn't seem QUITE so crazy to me, being 2 pterosaurs instead of just 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantoraptor Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Still_human said: I'm sorry, am i just totally missing something, or does it seem absolutely silly and naive to ignore all the other toothed species, and label everything as just coloborhynchus & siroccopteryx? What other species are you talking about? So far there only are two described in the Kem Kem Beds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 2 hours ago, gigantoraptor said: What other species are you talking about? So far there only are two described in the Kem Kem Beds. I was referring to the other toothed ones on the list u made, which I believe you were listing as other species that live in the same home range as colorborhynchus. From what u JUST said, that list isn't of species found in Kem Kem, but must be of other "home ranges" 'rhynchus teeth are found, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantoraptor Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, Still_human said: I was referring to the other toothed ones on the list u made, which I believe you were listing as other species that live in the same home range as colorborhynchus. From what u JUST said, that list isn't of species found in Kem Kem, but must be of other "home ranges" 'rhynchus teeth are found, right? No, those are families that are present in the Kem Kem Beds (known from vertebrae, bones etc.) but aren't officially described yet. So we don't know what their teeth look like. All Coloborhynchus teeth you saw on the net were missidentified since they are only described since last month. It was lik Rugops, Bahariasaurus... They are listed a lot for sale but aren't even described there. Since both Siroccopteryx and Coloborhynchus are Ornithocheirids, I doubth you can bring any pterosaur tooth from there down to species level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_human Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 4:21 PM, gigantoraptor said: No, those are families that are present in the Kem Kem Beds (known from vertebrae, bones etc.) but aren't officially described yet. So we don't know what their teeth look like. All Coloborhynchus teeth you saw on the net were missidentified since they are only described since last month. It was lik Rugops, Bahariasaurus... They are listed a lot for sale but aren't even described there. Since both Siroccopteryx and Coloborhynchus are Ornithocheirids, I doubth you can bring any pterosaur tooth from there down to species level. I'm a little confused--you're saying that coloborhynchus is a very newly described species, and any teeth labeled as such are going to be mislabeled? and then you're saying that it's probably not possible to be able to even ID pterosaur teeth down to sirocc and colob? Are you saying that's BECAUSE they're ornithocheirids, or you're just mentioning that's they family they're from? so basically, does that mean chances are that any of those pterosaur teeth that look different probably ARE from different species, but they can't really be narrowed to any species? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantoraptor Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 9 hours ago, Still_human said: I'm a little confused--you're saying that coloborhynchus is a very newly described species, and any teeth labeled as such are going to be mislabeled? and then you're saying that it's probably not possible to be able to even ID pterosaur teeth down to sirocc and colob? Are you saying that's BECAUSE they're ornithocheirids, or you're just mentioning that's they family they're from? so basically, does that mean chances are that any of those pterosaur teeth that look different probably ARE from different species, but they can't really be narrowed to any species? Okay, I'll try to explain but my English isn't the best. Coloborhynchus fluviferox is described (or at least the description was published) on 24 oktober 2018. This was the first time Coloborhynchus was found in Africa. So yes, every tooth you saw on the internet was mislabbeled. Now (after 24 oktober) I don't think it will be possible to ID Kem Kem pterosaur teeth since both toothed species are Ornithocheirids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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