Moroccan trilobite pair

[aeon.rocks]

Quote

Please don't take it out on us.  

 

I'm not, hope it didn't "sound" like that! 

 

Questions are good, scepticism also! I didn't criticise OP's questions! Sorry about paranoia part, wish I used different words, was not meant to offend, make division and not meant in any way negative. Don't take my words too sensitively, nor personally, I tend to generalise too much, we all make mistakes, I might be wrong to say that on a quick look I feel those 2 specimens are authentic, but as you say, we're on the same side, trying to help, educate and saying the same thing! It's just different words and opinions that can sometimes cause miss-understanding in passionate writing, although we are all trying to say the same thing.

 

 We do agree on calling into question the authenticity, amount of enhancement, or the outright fakery of specimens, no matter where from, I just shared my opinion people worry too much about authenticity of common Moroccan trilobites, in comparison to other common trilobites from other countries. And that such worries and scepticism are often based only on information written online. Some collectors are biased towards Moroccan trilobites, just as some collectors are biased about Chinese fossils and in some cases that bias is not based on experience. It's good to keep that in mind too. It's necessary to be sceptic, generally speaking there are a lot of fake and restored Moroccan trilobites in the market, very risky if you are inclined to purchase the cheapest material out there and expect 100% natural specimens, but when judging authenticity of individual fossils, it's sometimes better to forget the origin and examine the data with open-mind. Not meant to hurt anyones feelings, just trying to share my opinion.

 

And I agree this forum and members are correct to try to inform people of what they may or may not be getting, and educating them about fossils, real, fake, restored, and otherwise... And it's a great forum, we all learn plenty from members here! 

[Fossildude19]

I'm glad to hear this.  

 

Unfortunately, I fear that you did come across that way, ... at least to me.  

 

Answering topics when passionate, upset, or frustrated can cause meaning to be lost, and thoughtless words to be used. 

Reasonable replies can be elusive when coming from such an emotional response. It is not easy to not reply instantaneously, when we feel outrage or frustration. 

However, it is better to refrain from posting until a rational, reasoned response can be given.  

It avoids confusion for everyone.  

Regards,

[Auspex]

14 hours ago, aeon.rocks said:

It's the same story over and over, concerns about fakes and restorations just because people hear one word: "Morocco"...

The well established precedents demand healthy skepticism. S.J. Gould even wrote a book called "The Lying Stones of Marrakech".

All we can do is try our best to parse the details visible in low-quality images (provided by the seller). Reputation is a valid consideration.

[aeon.rocks]

2 hours ago, Auspex said:

The well established precedents demand healthy skepticism. S.J. Gould even wrote a book called "The Lying Stones of Marrakech".

All we can do is try our best to parse the details visible in low-quality images (provided by the seller). Reputation is a valid consideration.

 

Fossil faking industry exceeds Moroccan problem. There are 2 moral lessons to S.J.Gould's story! The important one, that I was trying to argument in this topic:  “do not engage in speculation beyond available evidence, and do not stray from the empirical method of direct observation.”

 

The thing is, in case OP would make a question about Moroccan trilobites without pictures, I'm pretty sure the first thing that runs through many minds would be: "probably faked or restored!"... That's the bias problem... Generally speaking, hope no one takes this personal now.

 

And the other one: 

 

"On a visit to Morocco, Gould finds some fake fossils in local shops, and uses these as inspiration to revisit a famous story in the history of paleontology: the case of the Lying Stones (Lügensteine) of Dr. Berringer. The events take place in Würzburg, Germany, in 1726. ... Dr. Berringer did find the planted objects (or, at least in some cases, they were “found” by paid assistants, one of whom was involved in the deception), and he did believe that they were naturally produced, rather than fabricated either recently or by ancient tribes. However, the perpetrators were irritated colleagues bent on damaging Berringer’s reputation, not students playing a prank. ... The crux of the essay is to point out that, while Berringer could have and should have avoided the trap, it was not as obvious in 1726 as it is today that the Lügensteine had to have been fakes.

 

It is a testament to how far we have come since 1726 that the only consequence of buying a fake fossil in Marrakech today is financial – and probably modest at that."

[Auspex]

14 minutes ago, aeon.rocks said:

“do not engage in speculation beyond available evidence, and do not stray from the empirical method of direct observation.”

Quite so! Thank you!

[Max-fossils]

Wow, seems like this topic caused quite a bit of drama/tension... Sorry!  

Perhaps I should've clarified. There is no way to contact the seller, but this is NOT the seller's choice. The auction website on which the fossil is posted (not online) makes it so that seller info, apart from reviews, is not shared. So the seller did not willingly choose for his/her info to not be shared, meaning there is nothing fishy about it. Plus the seller's reviews are nearly all very positive. I don't think this seller is dishonest, but I have no clue whether he can recognize fakes easily or not. 

 

In any case, the price of this thing shot way up overnight, so I'm not gonna be able to buy it. 

[aeon.rocks]

No drama! Or tensions... Just opinons. No worries! 

 

Get it now, thanks for clarifying. Don’t worry, there will be other. Although at 60€ and 30€ these are still very cheap, that hardly covers costs of unpreped material...

[aeon.rocks]

Ps: i’m not and don’t know the seller. Just though it’s worth mentioning to avoid confusion!