Chippewa Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 any thoughts on this would be appreciated. It is hard to capture with photos, but this fossil has a distinct transition around the circumference where it changes texture and shape. Kind of like you would see on the transition at the base of an antler. Thanks! Found: In a river in North Florida. Pleistocene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalaeoArt Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Do you have any details of where it was found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Chippewa said: Kind of like you would see on the transition at the base of an antler. Sorry, I have the base of a moose antler hanging about six inches from an outstretched arm. Only a slight flare and some tubercles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 3 hours ago, PalaeoArt said: Do you have any details of where it was found? In the tags, ... but I've added it to the post. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 My first impression is coprolite. Maybe @GeschWhat or @Carl can opine on this. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 (edited) It looks like it does have a spongey/cancellous boney texture on the end doesnt it...so very worn antler piece of some sort does make sense to me but what are the dimensions? Is it completely hollow down the shaft...can we get shot of the end view? Maybe the bone guys can say for sure... Regards, Chris P.S. Adding photo...for comparison here's a worn fossil deer antler piece at the bottom showing a similar circumference and textural change that you noted and a less worn piece above. Wait for the bone guys though..... Edited November 11, 2018 by Plantguy added photo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 It makes more sense if you call the cancellous bone skull, as shown also in the above reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalaeoArt Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 The end of this looks very similar to a large turtle/giant tortoise leg spur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 2 hours ago, PalaeoArt said: The end of this looks very similar to a large turtle/giant tortoise leg spur. Not like my spurs which are much shorter and pointier. John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 There is little cancellous bone in the cranium of a white tail deer. What we see here is the pedicle, the vascularized growth source of the antler. 5 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hndmarshall Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 what about some type of tusk? dont young mammoths and such have a short flatish root? and aren't they mostly black when found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 I think the determination is on the right way. The dark color may be related to the mud of the river bottom containing minerals and tannins. Can we have a picture straight from the hollow end? " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 On 11/11/2018 at 4:33 PM, Harry Pristis said: There is little cancellous bone in the cranium of a white tail deer. What we see here is the pedicle, the vascularized growth source of the antler. On 11/11/2018 at 11:03 AM, Rockwood said: It makes more sense if you call the cancellous bone skull, as shown also in the above reference. Thanks guys for the clarifications. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 11 hours ago, Harry Pristis said: There is little cancellous bone in the cranium of a white tail deer. What we see here is the pedicle, the vascularized growth source of the antler. Given the choice it stays with the animal skull though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 12 hours ago, Rockwood said: Given the choice it stays with the animal skull though. Annual antler production depends on hormones (testosterone) and blood circulation to the pedicle. When the antler stops growing, the blood supply to the growing antler shuts off below the knurled ring. You can see the line in the image I posted. That line represents the distal end of the pedicle and the proximal end of the antler. The pedicle is not cancellous bone, it is simply highly vascularized to support the rapid growth of the antler in the appropriate season. After the rutting season is over, the antler -- now dead bone -- is shed, separating at the distal end of the pedicle. It is much more common to find as a fossil the shed dead bone rather than an antler base with a portion of the pedicle. The mystery fossil in this thread still has some attached pedicle. 5 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Hey Harry, thanks for the additional explanation and pictures! 4 hours ago, Harry Pristis said: Annual antler production depends on hormones (testosterone) and blood circulation to the pedicle. When the antler stops growing, the blood supply to the growing antler shuts off below the knurled ring. You can see the line in the image I posted. That line represents the distal end of the pedicle and the proximal end of the antler. The pedicle is not cancellous bone, it is simply highly vascularized to support the rapid growth of the antler in the appropriate season. After the rutting season is over, the antler -- now dead bone -- is shed, separating at the distal end of the pedicle. It is much more common to find as a fossil the shed dead bone rather than an antler base with a portion of the pedicle. The mystery fossil in this thread still has some attached pedicle. I found this illustration which shows what you are describing and where the cancellous area is up in the antler, not as I thought. I learned something again. thanks! From here....http://www.msudeerlab.com/mobile/growthcycle.asp Regards, Chris 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Nice diagram, Chris! Abscission line . . . I like it! I struggled for a good descriptor, and now I have one! Thanks! http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chippewa Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 Well the verdict is still out on the mystery fragment, but, as always, its been an education along the way... Thanks again gents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 On 11/11/2018 at 9:31 AM, ynot said: My first impression is coprolite. Maybe @GeschWhat or @Carl can opine on this. Only in the vaguest sense might I consider this a coprolite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 On 11/12/2018 at 10:11 PM, Harry Pristis said: Nice diagram, Chris! Abscission line . . . I like it! I struggled for a good descriptor, and now I have one! Thanks! Hey Harry, it is a good diagram. glad you like it. I was looking at Hulbert's Fossil Vert in FL book in the artiodactyl section this past week and wanted to know if you have any of the rarer antlers/horn material from non-deer types that are mentioned? We see bison, camel, llama and deer material quite a bit on the forum but I was just wondering if you have/seen any antilocaprid finds. Sounds very rare. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronzviking Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 On 11/13/2018 at 4:03 PM, Chippewa said: Well the verdict is still out on the mystery fragment, but, as always, its been an education along the way... Thanks again gents! This member is very knowledgeable about Florida Pleistocene fossils and might be able to shed some light on your fragment. @PrehistoricFlorida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 On 11/17/2018 at 6:17 PM, Plantguy said: Hey Harry, it is a good diagram. glad you like it. I was looking at Hulbert's Fossil Vert in FL book in the artiodactyl section this past week and wanted to know if you have any of the rarer antlers/horn material from non-deer types that are mentioned? We see bison, camel, llama and deer material quite a bit on the forum but I was just wondering if you have/seen any antilocaprid finds. Sounds very rare. Regards, Chris I don't have a good representation of these bones. The best I have is this antelope partial. These antilocaprine horns are not shed annually (unlike deer), but they do annually shed the keratin sheath which covers the horns (unlike bovids). 3 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 On 11/19/2018 at 5:52 PM, Harry Pristis said: I don't have a good representation of these bones. The best I have is this antelope partial. These antilocaprines horns are not shed annually (unlike deer), but they do annually shed the keratin sheath which covers the horns (unlike bovids). Dang those photos are awesome! Thanks Harry! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrehistoricFlorida Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 On 11/17/2018 at 7:24 PM, Bronzviking said: This member is very knowledgeable about Florida Pleistocene fossils and might be able to shed some light on your fragment. @PrehistoricFlorida It's a well water worn section of deer antler. 3 www.PrehistoricFlorida.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronzviking Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 5 hours ago, PrehistoricFlorida said: It's a well water worn section of deer antler. Thanks Nate! We have an answer for you @Chippewa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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