Weird stuff-o-meter

[pcjr65]

I took this thing to a rock show today where done know-it-all guy looked down his nose at me and declared this "not a fossil'

He thinks it's some geological thing, a silicate based replacement, or some such... another vendor thought it looked like a sponge... nothing definitive.

[Carl]

On 11/16/2018 at 7:51 PM, ynot said:

@GeschWhat @Carl

Ever hear of floating coprolites?

Haven't heard of floating coprolites but I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

[Max-fossils]

17 hours ago, InfoHungryMom said:

Max, I know that, AND the “usually thought of” devil’s toenails are extinct!  

Actually, they're not! Yet... If you look here, you'll see that there is one genus that is not fully extinct yet: Neopycnodonte. There are only a couple species in that genus that are still alive nowadays. They don't have the exact same typical "devil's toenail" shape, but still a similar enough shape (imo). But the whole family will probably be extinct very soon (geologically speaking), they definitely seem to be on the decline. 

 

17 hours ago, InfoHungryMom said:

The flatter, wider, “prettier” slipper shells are referred to here just as, “slipper shells”!

I actually find the bulkier ones prettier  

I don't know enough about Crepidula shells from your region, and I don't know if there is more than one species present, but all the shells you have there do seem to be like the same species. So I understand your separation, but biologically speaking I don't know if it's correct. In other words, Linnaeus might be cross seeing that (if they are indeed different species)  

[Innocentx]

10 hours ago, pcjr65 said:

He thinks it's some geological thing, a silicate based replacement

I don't know if you've tried a bit of vinegar on it to see if it fizzes. That test might help figure this out. Drop it in some vinegar and see if it bubbles. Should take less than a minute to bubble if carbonate based. Keep a bowl of baking soda/water mixture nearby to stop reaction and neutralize acid (prevents acid from damaging it). Let us know what happens.

[GeschWhat]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:51 PM, ynot said:

@GeschWhat @Carl

Ever hear of floating coprolites?

I have never seen a floating coprolite (only the fresh stuff).  I do have some that are very porous that release tiny air bubbles as they sink to the bottom of the bowl when I clean them. 

On 11/15/2018 at 10:00 PM, Herb said:

there are some Silurian bryozoas that float in S.Indiana and N.KY

I would like to hear more about these. Very interesting!

[hndmarshall]

5 hours ago, Carl said:

Haven't heard of floating coprolites but I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

found this in a pdf online....."In many cases, coprolites have eroded out of their encasing sediments and are collected as float."

http://web.mnstate.edu/leonard/Chapter_02.pdf

page 45 first paragraph.

[ynot]

31 minutes ago, hndmarshall said:

found this in a pdf online....."In many cases, coprolites have eroded out of their encasing sediments and are collected as float."

http://web.mnstate.edu/leonard/Chapter_02.pdf

page 45 first paragraph.

In geologic terms "float" is a piece that is not in its original place in the bedrock, not that it will float in water.

 

[hndmarshall]

11 minutes ago, ynot said:

In geologic terms "float" is a piece that is not in its original place in the bedrock, not that it will float in water.

 

well there they go making themselves unclear again....to me float is well floating...I have a lot to learn.

[abyssunder]

I don't think that coprolite can float, especially in freshwater. Coprolites are lithified feces.
Ambergris, for example, is modern and is found in lumps of various shapes and sizes, and floats in saltwater. There are fossil ambergris discovered, but I think they doesn't float.

[Herb]

5 hours ago, ynot said:

In geologic terms "float" is a piece that is not in its original place in the bedrock, not that it will float in water.

 

In this case they 'actually' float in HOH. I will dig around a see if I  have some

[ynot]

10 minutes ago, Herb said:

In this case they 'actually' float in HOH. I will dig around a see if I  have some

That is not water and it muddies the issue.

 

I stand by what I said-- "float" does not mean that a rock floats in water, but that it has been moved from its original place in the bedrock.

[InfoHungryMom]

10 hours ago, Max-fossils said:

Actually, they're not! Yet... If you look here, you'll see that there is one genus that is not fully extinct yet: Neopycnodonte. There are only a couple species in that genus that are still alive nowadays. They don't have the exact same typical "devil's toenail" shape, but still a similar enough shape (imo). But the whole family will probably be extinct very soon (geologically speaking), they definitely seem to be on the decline. 

 

I actually find the bulkier ones prettier  

I don't know enough about Crepidula shells from your region, and I don't know if there is more than one species present, but all the shells you have there do seem to be like the same species. So I understand your separation, but biologically speaking I don't know if it's correct. In other words, Linnaeus might be cross seeing that (if they are indeed different species)  

Well, Sir Max... there is a reason that despite the scientific discussions, I have spoken about you as “genius” rather than worry about “genus”!

 

As for “the Slipper Shell Beauty Contest”, my most eligible contestants, alas, are not here for me to have shown in the picture; however, this article explains the difference between the “Eastern White Slipper Shell” and “The Common Slipper Shell” Eastern White Slipper Shell.  Usually, the ones we find of the EWSS variety are white, or white with a “very elegant interior”.  This is our self-proclaimed “Horseshoe Capital of the Universe” (the Chesapeake Bay and the DelMarVa Peninsula (Delaware, Maryland, Virginia).  It is extraordinarily uncommon to find Horseshoe Crabs or even the remnants of their shells without MANY slipper shells attached.  The poor male Horseshoe Crabs, which are smaller and, um, not seemingly as, uh, smart as the females, all attempt to jump on a female simultaneously, and whether “they got lucky or not”, they are usually too tired to fight the ocean currents.  I pick them up and put them back, but the crabs are “long gone” and those Slippers “go the distance with them, either way!”)

 

Soooo, I don’t know what the original growth shown in this is, or if it is similar to the one I showed that HAPPENED to have become “very attached” to the “Common Slipper Shell”, as we call it here...”A Devil’s Toenail”...... A.D.D. Indeed-  ::looking for my crown as queen::

[Ramon]

I personally think its some type of horn coral cast. If it has a sandy texture, it is unlikely it is a coprolite.

[Carl]

18 hours ago, hndmarshall said:

found this in a pdf online....."In many cases, coprolites have eroded out of their encasing sediments and are collected as float."

http://web.mnstate.edu/leonard/Chapter_02.pdf

page 45 first paragraph.

Yeah: ynot hit the nail on the head. Float, in this context, means fossils eroded out of their host matrix that are just picked up rather than excavated.

[Carl]

23 hours ago, abyssunder said:

I don't think that coprolite can float, especially in freshwater. Coprolites are lithified feces.
Ambergris, for example, is modern and is found in lumps of various shapes and sizes, and floats in saltwater. There are fossil ambergris discovered, but I think they doesn't float.

Now that I think of it, there are coprolites that would likely float. Desiccated coprolites found in caves, like those of sloths and other mammals, are not mineralized and could potentially float.

[GeschWhat]

1 hour ago, Carl said:

Now that I think of it, there are coprolites that would likely float. Dessicated oprolites found in caves, like those of sloths and other mammals, are not mineralized and could potentially float.

Those would also likely rehydrate (and smell). I wish they would come up with another name for those. To me they are not lithified, they are not coprolites. 

[ynot]

1 hour ago, Carl said:

Now that I think of it, there are coprolites that would likely float. Dessicated oprolites found in caves, like those of sloths and other mammals, are not mineralized and could potentially float.

 

2 minutes ago, GeschWhat said:

Those would also likely rehydrate (and smell). I wish they would come up with another name for those. To me they are not lithified, they are not coprolites. 

They would not float for long and are likely to dissolve also.

[Carl]

4 hours ago, GeschWhat said:

Those would also likely rehydrate (and smell). I wish they would come up with another name for those. To me they are not lithified, they are not coprolites. 

You know my take on that.

[abyssunder]

Maybe it will be interesting to see how it looks inside. Possibly a median longitudinal section of the specimen in question may lead to some conclusion.

..................

Can we have a high-resolution image of the area shown below?

Edited November 20, 2018 by abyssunder

[Herb]

On 11/19/2018 at 8:18 PM, ynot said:

That is not water and it muddies the issue.

 

I stand by what I said-- "float" does not mean that a rock floats in water, but that it has been moved from its original place in the bedrock.

it was meant as a joke (HOH, H20). And you are correct 'float" means a rock or fossil that is found out of it's time sequence. I am. however talking about some fossil specimens that are actually light enough to float on water. Similar to pumice in texture ,I will try to locate and post pictures.

See below.

[Herb]

Floating Devonian sponges, no ID

[ynot]

2 hours ago, Herb said:

it was meant as a joke (

Sorry, I missed that one.

 

1 hour ago, Herb said:

Floating Devonian sponges, no ID

Cool, would never have imagined that.

[abyssunder]

Excellent, Herb!
Are those sponges?

[Herb]

22 minutes ago, abyssunder said:

Excellent, Herb!
Are those sponges?

yes I believe so

[abyssunder]

28 minutes ago, Herb said:

yes I believe so

Have they an attachment plane or something that reflects a possible root ?