LanceH Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 What do y'all think of this? The teeth are on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenixflood Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 A new purchase? Or did someone place it out there for you to find? I wish I knew more about your area but here is some food for thought. When you normally find a Ptychodus tooth in your area what is the matrix like? Notice the texture, the hardness, and the different types of stones contained in it. If you don't have any to compare to maybe someone on here does. I would like to believe it is real. Another test, to see if they are all real teeth, is the hot needle test. Just to check. That is a lot of work to go through if it is a fake using real teeth. The soul of a Fossil Hunter is one that is seeking, always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceH Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) A customer sent the pictures to me. He says he found it himself in Ellis county, Texas or Maypearl, Texas. This would be Eagle Ford formation. The teeth are real at least. Edited September 14, 2009 by LanceHall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenixflood Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 A customer sent the pictures to me. He says he found it himself in Ellis county, Texas or Maypearl, Texas. This would be Eagle Ford formation. The teeth are real at least. Are they trying to sell it to you or were they just showing it to you? Either way, I sure you will have some help soon The soul of a Fossil Hunter is one that is seeking, always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Looks almost too straight. Im not sure why the teeth would be on both sides, unless when it was fossilized, half the jaw folded over? Nice teeth. I bet I know round about what creek they found it in. I have heard rumors of that place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traviscounty Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Those look like two different pieces. Maybe it's the camera angle or me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOROPUS Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I think teeth are original real ones, but that they look a little bit suspicious;they look as they where stuck on some fake "plaster-matrix" (some Moroccan fossils have similar aspect). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Does anyone think this is legit? The teeth are on both sides. It is weird in that the teeth in the first photo seem to be from a different site/bed than those in the second, thought the source could simpy reply that the side with more weathering was face-up when it was found. I have a piece of matrix with about 23 Ptychodus mortoni teeth more tightly-packed together than those in the photos (a piece also from the Eagle Ford). Assuming, we are seeing a jaw section in the process of disarticulation, I would not expect the teeth to separate from each other as equidistantly in the first photo. The teeth seem less regularly-separated in the second yet still looking like they were artificially planted. In three words, I'm very suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 i'm thinking it may be real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I'm confused... If the two pics are opposite sides of the same plate, how come the crowns are exposed on both? It was mentioned that folding would account for this, but how is it possible for that to happen without displacing the teeth more? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 the more i look at it, the more i think it's real. analogy i'm not saying it's a great analogy. but apparently fascia is one of the last things to deteriorate, and it folds quite easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I gotta agree with Auspex and Moropus. If this was legit, either each jaw would have to have folded 180 degrees or one do a complete 360. Since likely one jaw would have been resting on the sea floor when the critter died, I can't see that happening. The Moroccans have been adding real teeth to fake matrix for years, this may be something similar. It's too perfect There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldom Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 In the second picture there are teeth along the side where it folded I guess. I am with Auspex I can not understand how it could fold without the teeth popping out Galveston Island 32 miles long 2 miles wide 134 bars 23 liquor stores any questions? Evolution is Chimp Change. Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning to dance in the rain! "I like to listen. I have learned a great deal from listening carefully. Most people never listen." Ernest Hemingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traviscounty Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 It really does not look like this is a picture of two sides of one object. It looks like two different pieces. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 The formation appears to be Austin Chalk. I have walked some creeks in that area, and they are thick Austin chalk. Im sure theres a contact zone somewhere in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorman Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 These appear to be two separate pieces to me also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bierk Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) I believe it to be a fake, and a pretty poor one at that. Edited September 14, 2009 by bierk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 At first, I thought this was two separate pieces. Yet, with respect to Lance's photos, I may have matched up a few common points from both sides. The original differences are a distortion in perspective. As to it's authenticity...I'm not sure. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawooten Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I have to agree that the teeth are real BUT it is true the Moroccans have been adding real teeth to fake matrix so it is possible that we are seeing it here... It is a good way to keep all the teeth together. Dino dentures so to speak. :lolu: The best days are spent collecting fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrocklds Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 well i have been looking at this thing quite a bit and at first i thought definately a fake, but now that i keep looking at it is find myself asking a few questions. is is likely to find enough teeth of the exact same color, size and shape to assemble a "jaw section". both sides exhibit a fair number of teeth that have the exact same coloration. this is unusual, especially for the darker weathered side. these teeth all weatherd together in my opinion. also i think if someone was going to fake a thing like this they would not put two sides showing crowns, even horrible fakers would know better than that. and the sizes are very similar and the transition in size is very smooth and natural, another unlikley scenario for a fake. i would expect to see a choppy transition. also all of the teeth have the same exact shape, meaning they did not try to put a tooth from the left side with teeth from the right side or the middle. although the "matrix" looks a bit sketchy i would say this is a real not faked fossil. Brock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 If it's real, it's a heck of a find! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceH Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share Posted September 14, 2009 OK here's a combination of the sides where I think the fold is supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramo Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I've never seen anything quite like this either, but I think that ptychodus teeth originate along the underside of the jaw and kind of roll out to replace the older used ones. I suppose this could be a section of the jaw where this was happening when the critter died. Ramo For one species to mourn the death of another is a new thing under the sun. -Aldo Leopold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceH Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) If real this maybe an example of where the inner lining of the shark's mouth became unattached from the cheek and then folded inward with part of the lower and upper plates attached. Then it was compressed. Also it occured to me that if BOTH sides are actually the SAME species of teeth (even though they look different) then there's no way a faker could even possibly know that... they'd use identical looking teeth on both sides. I've sent pics to Mr. Hamm who actually wrote a book on Ptychodus. He seems to think it's real. Edited September 15, 2009 by LanceHall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-remanié Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I'm not that familiar with Ptychodus, so would this be Ptychodus polygurus? It seems like if real it would have to be a folded upper jaw of Ptychodus polygurus since each side of the specimen has a row of the larger teeth, or half of a dentition folded upon itself. The problem with this folding is that the jaw would not have been flat in life, but seems to have flattened perfectly at least on one side for display?? The spacing and size distribution doesn't seem to fit perfectly with OofK specimens, but probably the size of shark would influence this. Also as others have noted the teeth seem to be spaced slightly too far apart, yet equidistantly. http://www.oceansofkansas.com/gallery1/pty-doc2.jpg http://www.oceansofkansas.com/ptychodus2.html OofK has a picture of a folded specimen of Ptychodus, so I guess that this does happen to Ptychodus plates to some extent, but their specimen shows the fold to be on the margins of the tooth plate, not down the center of a dentition or half of a dentition folded upon itself. It does seem that if a dentition were to fold on itself in this more extreme way, it might disrupt the alignment more than the fold pictured on OofK. http://www.oceansofkansas.com/Ptychodus/91-106j.jpg http://www.oceansofkansas.com/Ptychodus.html But the largest problem I have with this specimen is that the more disrupted (non-display side?) seems to have teeth that to me APPEAR to be fairly weathered and rounded as if they came from a lag deposit, while the perfect (display side?) seems to have perfectly preserved teeth more likely from a massive chalk unit. That doesn't add up.... ---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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