Jump to content
Wolf89

Native American Shark tooth pendant?

Recommended Posts

Wolf89

I'm not sure if this should go in the native American section or not, so mods feel free to move it.

 

I've seen mention that native Americans using fossil shark teeth as arrow heads and pendants and I've seen that they look actually like the tooth in question like where they put the string. That would be super cool if that's what this is. Thanks 

Screenshot_20181203-202951_Facebook.jpg

Screenshot_20181203-203014_Facebook.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wolf89

This looks nearly identical and is from the above paper

Screenshot_20181203-214624_Chrome.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SailingAlongToo
1 minute ago, Wolf89 said:

This looks nearly identical and is from the above paper

 

I will say, Drs. Godfrey and Eshelman are 1st class scientists. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wolf89
3 minutes ago, SailingAlongToo said:

 

I will say, Drs. Godfrey and Eshelman are 1st class scientists. 

So you think there is a good chance this one would be an artifact?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SailingAlongToo

Not really sure.

 

If you notice, the photo you posted from the paper shows "notching" in the root, above the blade. Yours clearly shows the blade broken in the corners to make the grooves. I posted the paper to give you some scientific info on the subject.

 

We (Mrs.SA2 & I) have numerous straight teeth from the Chesapeake Bay region with grooves at the root/blade seam. Only 1 do we "think" might have been used as a "tool".

 

The nice lady I tagged has a tooth many folks think was used as a tool. Hopefully, she will respond & post a photo of hers.

 

I would email photos of your tooth to Dr. Stephen Godfrey and give him all the particulars including location of the find. You can find his email at Calvert Marine Museum's website. He will show the photos to Dr. Eshelman. 

 

Cheers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abyssunder

There are probably pholad borings, so the tooth might have bioerosion markings. There is more then one boring in the tooth root.

Here are two similar ones.

 

gallery_1240_1773_64822.thumb.jpg.06560e0cab2f829f86e5e9c73d269dd8.jpgbv_meg150lb006.JPG.2f88ef46a61ab48547cf86869fe47e09.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sixgill pete

I agree with @Harry Pristis and @abyssunder. Most likely pholad borings. That is holes from boring clams in the family Pholadidae.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MrR

I am very new to the shark-tooth world, and the fossil world in general. However, I can't help seeing that this tooth could have been worn as a pendant. While it looks different, i.e. less refined, than the one in the referenced paper, the "feel" of it is not so dissimilar to my, admittedly untrained, eye. Is it possible that said difference is just a matter of style? Or that an early native thousands of years ago picked up such a tooth, complete with borings, and liked that they could pass some rawhide, sinew, gut, etc., through it without having to do the boring themselves? It's probably a moot point, but I do see a resemblance between the two images that make me believe it would at least be somewhat possible.

 

Every society has perfectionist makers of usable things, who live in the neighborhood of those who perhaps see more value in naturally occurring utility, i.e., ease of use, right? While it seems unlikely to ever be able to prove this piece was was worn as fashion, rather than merely being worn (as in eroded) in a suggestive way, it is interesting to leave it open to that possibility.

 

If it was just the boring holes, I'd think it was a happy coincidence. And it's true that any small thing with a hole passed th through it, that has some cool appeal, could be used as a pendant. However, with the pass-through hole(s), as well as the fairly symmetrical chipped away cusp area, I'm seeing at least some chance of it being an adornment of some sort, by someone, at some time. Heck, maybe it was found and worn in the 1940's? Then again...? Regardless, it's a nice specimen. Cheers.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ynot

The only way this could be considered an artifact is if it had been found in context (Burial or village site- removed from fossil sites).

As it is the only thing that can be said is it may look like an artifact but nature likes to fool us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Harry Pristis
4 hours ago, MrR said:

However, with the pass-through hole(s), as well as the fairly symmetrical chipped away cusp area, I'm seeing at least some chance of it being an adornment of some sort, by someone, at some time.

 

I think you could make your own dream come true:  You should wear this around your neck.  That way, it'll will become a pendant.  Be certain to finish the pholadid burrow so that there is no sharp edge to cut your cordage.  In doing so, you will have turned the tooth into an artifact . . . Not a Native American artifact, of course, but a modern SoCal artifact.

  :yay-smiley-1:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wolf89
2 hours ago, MrR said:

While it looks different, i.e. less refined, than the one in the referenced paper,

Well a factor for that would that this one was found 2 states below where the paper is based in. The Native Americans can be different and have differing styles. That's just some of my thoughts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abyssunder
36 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

Be certain to finish the pholadid burrow so that there is no sharp edge to cut your cordage.

:dinothumb:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Al Tahan

The hardest part about science is trying to set aside our human emotion, beliefs and conformational biases. While we can't technically disprove it wasn't an artifact, we also can't prove that it is. There are some similarities, but also large differences. 

 

Im going deep into this real quick....This is how I go about critical thinking when I see something like this with science. 

 

Think about a murder investigation..what if we had to link somebody to a murder by proving that was a native american artifact? The family trying to get justice wants to believe they found the murderer and that tooth is indeed a pendant. The family of the accused does not think you can link the tooth to being a artifact because of the above discussed. Each person can sit and argue all day because they both have at least something they can relate to to fit their view. 

 

What if you were accused?? Do you still believe its an artifact? Your emotional investment in the question will dictate your answer. 

 

Our brains are so flawed as humans we can dictate more than we imagine just because we wish something to be so....we will find a way for it to be so. 

 

 

My take: looks suspicious....but I also know nothing about shark teeth and its relation to native american artifacts. Based on what I read above it would be cool if it was an artifact but I don't think it is. We can't come up with a whole new tribe of native american shark tooth artifacts to fit the new tooth shape so that it fits our view. See how easy it is to trap yourself with emotional investment?? This applies to science and life. 

 

Just a fun thought experiment!! :)

 

 

Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MrR

Thanks for the fashion advice and cordage-cutting wit, Harry Pristis.  Seriously though, even when I was a 15 year-old surf-grom, I wouldn't have worn a shark tooth around this precious neck. True, I did have a set of wooden beads strung on leather, but it was a short phase I went through, and they had nothing but rounded edges.

 

I do see a lot of shark-tooth necklaces being offered for sale. If nobody outside of North-Central Florida is buying them ;), there must be a monstrous glut out there. Believe me though, I won't be helping decrease any such glut. :trex: Cheers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MrR

BTW: If that tooth was mine, and I was to offer it for sale, I wouldn't be describing it as a necklace or anything. I agree that it has no provable basis in fact. I apologize to the OP for pulling the thread off-topic.  Cheers.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Al Tahan

Its all healthy discussion no need to apologize :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RickNC

This one is bored dead center. 

IMG_7040.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fossil-Hound
On 12/4/2018 at 4:50 PM, Al Tahan said:

The hardest part about science is trying to set aside our human emotion, beliefs and conformational biases. While we can't technically disprove it wasn't an artifact, we also can't prove that it is. There are some similarities, but also large differences. 

 

Im going deep into this real quick....This is how I go about critical thinking when I see something like this with science. 

 

Think about a murder investigation..what if we had to link somebody to a murder by proving that was a native american artifact? The family trying to get justice wants to believe they found the murderer and that tooth is indeed a pendant. The family of the accused does not think you can link the tooth to being a artifact because of the above discussed. Each person can sit and argue all day because they both have at least something they can relate to to fit their view. 

 

What if you were accused?? Do you still believe its an artifact? Your emotional investment in the question will dictate your answer. 

 

Our brains are so flawed as humans we can dictate more than we imagine just because we wish something to be so....we will find a way for it to be so. 

 

 

My take: looks suspicious....but I also know nothing about shark teeth and its relation to native american artifacts. Based on what I read above it would be cool if it was an artifact but I don't think it is. We can't come up with a whole new tribe of native american shark tooth artifacts to fit the new tooth shape so that it fits our view. See how easy it is to trap yourself with emotional investment?? This applies to science and life. 

 

Just a fun thought experiment!! :)

 

 

Al

Wow that was deep and I enjoyed reading this long blurb. Your comment; "but I also know nothing about shark teeth and its relation to native american artifacts." literally made me laugh out loud. :) I do agree with @SailingAlongToo that Dr. Godfrey should be able to shed some light on the subject.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abyssunder
21 hours ago, RickNC said:

This one is bored dead center. 

IMG_7040.JPG

That's another nice example of multiple boring in a considered to be lithic substrate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MrR

Coincidentally, I found another image of a nicely centered bore through a shark tooth's root. It's about 1/2 way down the page on Mark Renz' site, in his "Sloth" section. Thinking it may have been an artifact, he turned it over to the proper authorities in Florida.
Excitement of Bored Meg Tooth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abyssunder

I'm wondering what was the conclusion of the specialist from FMNH? Drill hole for sure, but from who?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×