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Recker

Fossil, concretion, pipe coral or fossilized corn cob? LOL

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Recker

Got out to the river today to do some rock hounding, I think I've found a fossilized corn cob LOL.   Honestly, I have no idea what this could possibly be a tool, concretion, fossil or just weird rock.  The exposed end has a scallop like design, longitudinal grooves of some sort while the other end seems hollow to a point.  It's weighty.  What do you think?   Found on the Whitewater River, Franklin County, Southeast Indiana.  Thanks so much!!

48053495_309753813207671_5169663378972475392_n.jpg

48080557_300797750563114_2673778340472553472_n.jpg

48164908_1581026995377128_989932409166233600_n (1).jpg

48164908_1581026995377128_989932409166233600_n.jpg

48168946_399071747498624_8789009019114094592_n.jpg

48189775_296029891021939_4318513479242743808_n.jpg

48329409_1950859191877736_4217349089408319488_n.jpg

48373180_1255455027958874_2055419662505607168_n.jpg

48376291_769030790104937_1301738981792153600_n.jpg

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Rockwood

Crinoid caylx that's been partly obscured by a subsequent encrustation of bryozoans. The colony having been mostly weathered away. 

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Fossildude19
55 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Crinoid caylx that's been partly obscured by a subsequent encrustation of bryozoans. The colony having been mostly weathered away. 

Awfully large for a crinoid calyx, no?   :headscratch: :unsure:

My first thought was bryozoan encrusted sponge.  :shrug:

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abyssunder

maybe something plant related? :headscratch:

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Recker

I appreciate all your help!  It is a big fossil, I'm used to finding small horn coral and such saw this and was like holy snarge!!  I can take more photos if that would help.

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Rockwood
1 hour ago, Fossildude19 said:

Awfully large for a crinoid calyx, no?

Big, but not too big. Notice the pentameral 'plates' that appear to underlie the overall geometry.

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Recker

Here is a close up photo of the outer layer or encrustation, if it helps.

48277828_307604500091166_7149643079090176_n.jpg

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abyssunder
1 hour ago, Rockwood said:

Notice the pentameral 'plates' that appear to underlie the overall geometry.

Are you referring to these?

 

a.jpg.128ce6cc61bd9772730cbfe239b72e8a.jpg

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Rockwood
40 minutes ago, abyssunder said:

Are you referring to these?

More so these.

48164908_1581026995377128_989932409166233600_n.jpg.8520d1f232b205f28f33f7ee99c09613_LI.jpg

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Herb

image.jpeg.4f2ef39df62d33e160c1f79ce55d143a.jpegMaybe the cylindrical stromatolite Beatricea sp

image.jpeg.7c99eb1cb1bbfbf54dce6a7866fdb92f.jpeg

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Echinoid

Maybe a concretion which formed around a coral or sponge? 
The outer layer appears to contain some small corals or foraminifera.

This is very similar to some of the phosphate concretions found at Beaumaris: 

5c11f7b542442_phosphatenodule.JPG.4087e355b9be1e9fba7410e9764c7547.JPG

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doushantuo

phosphatized Thalassinoides burrow?

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Al Tahan

I’m seeing what looks like a quartz vein surrounded by the host matrix......that’s if this is not a fossil. To be honest I don’t see anything that screams fossil right away. Could be a filled burrow?.....I do see some details running along the “inner” layer.  The “outer” layer of this piece shows signs of “exfoliating” (super simplified: layered weathering) probably from a “competency contrast” between the 2 different “rock types”. 

 

Maybe a trace fossil? But I don’t see much more to indicate more than a trace fossil or a quartz vein. 

 

Try to see what formation it may have come from (if at all possible) and see if anything has been documented like this. 

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Al Tahan

Just did a google search......Franklin county, Indiana has Ordovician age rocks. 

 

The oldest rocks are limestone dolostone and sandstone and are “subsurface” the youngest rocks shale and limestone and are probably what outcrop in that part of Indiana. 

 

Since this was along a river this could have been from another part of the state. If it did it could be Silurian or Devonian age as well as they also make up a large portion of southeast Indiana. 

 

At this his point I would try to see what fossils have been documented in the Devonian, Silurian, and Ordovician rocks of southeast Indiana. 

 

Im seeing a rocktype of a shaley, possibly limestone surrounding a “quartz like” vein. perhaps the “inner”

later is calcite? May need to bust out the vinegar for more clues. 

 

 

Hope this helps you in the search for answers 

 

Al

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Rockwood
33 minutes ago, Al Tahan said:

I’m seeing what looks like a quartz vein surrounded by the host matrix......that’s if this is not a fossil

Not sure if it's what you intended to indicate, but just to be clear, fossils do sometimes have quartz veins running through them.

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minnbuckeye
15 hours ago, Recker said:

48189775_296029891021939_4318513479242743808_n.jpg

 

 

I hunt the Ordovician, so when something this large presents itself, I think "could it be a cephalopod". Some cephalopods locally will be hollow, some with quartz deposits. this exhibits both. 

 

The picture that interests me the most was the one quoted above. There are longitudinal ridges similar to the cephalopod  Kionoceratids. Just a thought. It still doesn't explain the outer layer.

 

Kionoceratids from the Moroccan Devonian (A-G) and from the Czech Silurian (H-O), all natural size. A-G . Ames- souiceras enneagon gen. et sp.nov., PIMUZ 27079, Sellanarcestes wenkenbachi goniatite Zone, Late Emsian (Early Devonian), northern limb of the Jebel Amessoui, Tafilalt (Anti-Atlas, Morocco), B, C, D, F coated with ammonium chloride, x 2. A, oblique cross section to show septal perforation (arrow). B, ventral view. C, lateral view. D, dorsal view. E, cross section to show the suborthochoanitic subcen - tral septal necks (arrows); the same septal necks are shown in the magnification to the right. F, apical view. G, two suture lines at 29 mm diameter. H-J . Kionoceras doricum (Barrande, 1868), two specimens, Middle to Late Gorstian, Viskočilka (Czech Republic), reproduced from Barrande (1868, pl. 269). H, cross section showing the straight tubular connecting rings. I, lateral view, with fragmentary shell remains. J, last preserved septum. K , L . Kionoceras ponderosum (Barrande, 1868), Silurian, hill between Bubovitz and Lodenitz (Czech Republic), re - produced from Barrande (1868, pl. 271). K, septal view, note the almost central siphuncle. L, lateral view, M-O . Kionoceras bacchus (Bar- rande, 1868), Late Wenlock, Czech Republic, reproduced from Barrande (1868, pl. 271). M, specimen from Lochkov; cross section showing the straight tubular connecting rings with siphuncular deposits. N, O, specimen from the hill between Bubovitz and Lodenitz. N, septal view. O, lateral view, fragmentary shell remains with longitudinal striae and lirae. 
 

 
 
 

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doushantuo

the image is from:



CHRISTIAN KLUG, BJÖRN KRÖGER AND KENNETH DE BAETS

An Early Devonian nonagonal orthoconic cephalopod from Morocco

in:


Tanabe, K., Shigeta, Y., Sasaki, T. & Hirano, H. (eds.) 2010. Cephalopods - Present and Past
Tokai University Press, Tokyo, p. 141-146.

 

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Al Tahan
11 minutes ago, minnbuckeye said:

 

 

I hunt the Ordovician, so when something this large presents itself, I think "could it be a cephalopod". Some cephalopods locally will be hollow, some with quartz deposits. this exhibits both. 

 

The picture that interests me the most was the one quoted above. There are longitudinal ridges similar to the cephalopod  Kionoceratids. Just a thought. It still doesn't explain the outer layer.

 

Kionoceratids from the Moroccan Devonian (A-G) and from the Czech Silurian (H-O), all natural size. A-G . Ames- souiceras enneagon gen. et sp.nov., PIMUZ 27079, Sellanarcestes wenkenbachi goniatite Zone, Late Emsian (Early Devonian), northern limb of the Jebel Amessoui, Tafilalt (Anti-Atlas, Morocco), B, C, D, F coated with ammonium chloride, x 2. A, oblique cross section to show septal perforation (arrow). B, ventral view. C, lateral view. D, dorsal view. E, cross section to show the suborthochoanitic subcen - tral septal necks (arrows); the same septal necks are shown in the magnification to the right. F, apical view. G, two suture lines at 29 mm diameter. H-J . Kionoceras doricum (Barrande, 1868), two specimens, Middle to Late Gorstian, Viskočilka (Czech Republic), reproduced from Barrande (1868, pl. 269). H, cross section showing the straight tubular connecting rings. I, lateral view, with fragmentary shell remains. J, last preserved septum. K , L . Kionoceras ponderosum (Barrande, 1868), Silurian, hill between Bubovitz and Lodenitz (Czech Republic), re - produced from Barrande (1868, pl. 271). K, septal view, note the almost central siphuncle. L, lateral view, M-O . Kionoceras bacchus (Bar- rande, 1868), Late Wenlock, Czech Republic, reproduced from Barrande (1868, pl. 271). M, specimen from Lochkov; cross section showing the straight tubular connecting rings with siphuncular deposits. N, O, specimen from the hill between Bubovitz and Lodenitz. N, septal view. O, lateral view, fragmentary shell remains with longitudinal striae and lirae. 
 

 

 
 
 

Those lines running down do seem to have some connection to the photos there!! Maybe it’s just a large weathered cephalopod 

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Al Tahan
31 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Not sure if it's what you intended to indicate, but just to be clear, fossils do sometimes have quartz veins running through them.

I’ve seen quartz veins that are not fossils that have looked “similar”. I have also seen fossils with veins in them. If the fossilization was just from replacement by silica it could look like this too. Just trying to help. 

 

From the images @minnbuckeye shared I think its probably a large cephalopod remnant. Neat! :hammer01:

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Al Tahan

The “outer” layer could just be the matrix around the “plausible” cephalopod. Tough to know for certain because it wasn’t in situ. 

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Al Tahan

One last thing I want to add it’s not really easy to make a 100% ID from this. I personally think it’s a geologic feature or unidentifiable fossil remnant. That’s all I can personally say. I’ll sit back and let others put in their thoughts now that I’ve blown up the thread :popcorn::ammonite01:

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Rockwood

This area sure looks biological.

Do you suppose  coenosteum of a heliolitid is out of the question ?

48189775_296029891021939_4318513479242743808_n.jpg.436b64c5b802a0bb3010c868d8ee1c68_LI.jpg

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Recker
3 hours ago, Al Tahan said:

Just did a google search......Franklin county, Indiana has Ordovician age rocks. 

 

The oldest rocks are limestone dolostone and sandstone and are “subsurface” the youngest rocks shale and limestone and are probably what outcrop in that part of Indiana. 

 

Since this was along a river this could have been from another part of the state. If it did it could be Silurian or Devonian age as well as they also make up a large portion of southeast Indiana. 

 

At this his point I would try to see what fossils have been documented in the Devonian, Silurian, and Ordovician rocks of southeast Indiana. 

 

Im seeing a rocktype of a shaley, possibly limestone surrounding a “quartz like” vein. perhaps the “inner”

later is calcite? May need to bust out the vinegar for more clues. 

 

 

Hope this helps you in the search for answers 

 

Al

I appreciate everyone's help in trying to id this!  A little more background on the area and how, where I found it.   The Brookville Reservoir was formed when they flooded a large area and built a dam to control flooding downriver where I live.  The north end of the reservoir does extend almost to Richmond Indiana and into the Silurian age.  Where I live is considered the Whitewater Valley and unlike most of Indiana that is flat we have higher elevations, many creeks that originate in the hills feed into the river as well.  Even though the Whitewater is controlled by a dam it still is prone to flooding and in the fall they open the dam up for a draw down to prepare for winter snow and precipitation.   When I found this object it was jammed behind some larger rocks and small brush that had bent down from the higher water.   The location that I found it is New Trenton.  

c287bed65813de614bd6a09cc40d0a14.thumb.jpg.e91a81e4920f54980515b90b049ecc7a.jpg

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Recker
2 hours ago, Al Tahan said:

Those lines running down do seem to have some connection to the photos there!! Maybe it’s just a large weathered cephalopod 

Wow, sure looks similar!!

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Recker

This is a photo I took yesterday of the location I found the fossil, you can see the river does get pretty high and flows fast, the river had dropped enough for me to get out looking yesterday.

48016553_2432111240136965_6854963517485744128_n.jpg

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