Morocco trilobites

[Raulsaurus]

Hello!!!

I want to buy some trilobites.

The seller send me these photos.

What do you think?

Fakes, good ones, not good?

I don’t know nothing about trilobites...

Thank you so much!!!!

[Raulsaurus]

Hallardops

[Raulsaurus]

Moroconite 

[Raulsaurus]

Odontochile

[Raulsaurus]

Twin coltrainia 

[Misha]

From the amount of detail they have I would say real, only thing is that the last ones might have connected artificially and you should also ask if any of them were partially reconstructed as that is hard to see with the lighting they provide in the pictures.

[Raulsaurus]

4 minutes ago, Misha said:

Por la cantidad de detalles que tienen, diría real, lo único es que los últimos podrían haberse conectado artificialmente y también debería preguntar si alguno de ellos se reconstruyó parcialmente, ya que es difícil de ver con la iluminación que proporcionan en las fotos.

Thank you so much. The last 2 are real twins because the preparator show me the unprepared trilobites. So, Do you think are not restored and all real? I have videos but I can not post...

[Misha]

Just now, Raulsaurus said:

Thank you so much. The last 2 are real twins because the preparator show me the unprepared trilobites. So, Do you think are not restored and all real? I have videos but I can not post...

If the videos show the whole thing being uncovered than they are probably all real.

[aeon.rocks]

Good! Real! Common species... Nothing to worry, good commercial prep and no faking... 

 

You should learn to always check typical details of each species when buying trilobites and get familiar about what you are buying. Minor restoration or repair is typical for all trilobites, when you glue the parts, you are already making a repair. USA bugs are restored, Russian bugs are restored, nothing wrong with that, if sellers are honest, and imho good quality Moroccan bugs are probably statistically the least restored. If you saw prep-pics or videos not sure what you worry about, can't ask for more proof! But I get it... People tend to see ghosts in case of Moroccan trilobites just based on stereotypes.

 

https://www.facebook.com/FosiliSlovenije/photos/a.516367441716638/2095373990482634/?type=3&theater

 

[Raulsaurus]

1 hour ago, aeon.rocks said:

Good! Real! Common species... Nothing to worry, good commercial prep and no faking... 

 

You should learn to always check typical details of each species when buying trilobites and get familiar about what you are buying. Minor restoration or repair is typical for all trilobites, when you glue the parts, you are already making a repair. USA bugs are restored, Russian bugs are restored, nothing wrong with that, if sellers are honest, and imho good quality Moroccan bugs are probably statistically the least restored. If you saw prep-pics or videos not sure what you worry about, can't ask for more proof! But I get it... People tend to see ghosts in case of Moroccan trilobites just based on stereotypes.

 

https://www.facebook.com/FosiliSlovenije/photos/a.516367441716638/2095373990482634/?type=3&theater

 

Thank you!

Do you think are good pieces?

Can you tell me market prices for these pieces?

The preparator show me other rare pieces, like these:

[Kane]

We do not provide appraisals here. The fossil is worth what someone is willing to pay.

[Raulsaurus]

3 minutes ago, Kane said:

We do not provide appraisals here. The fossil is worth what someone is willing to pay.

Ok. Sorry. But I only ask about proximate market price. 

[Kane]

10 minutes ago, Raulsaurus said:

Ok. Sorry. But I only ask about proximate market price. 

That is another way of asking the same question, but seeking a more vague response. 

 

Perhaps another way to think about value would be to consider the labour time, cost of tools, and some reasonable mark-up. What would you pay for, say, 25 hours of someone’s time? Usually, the nicer and more complicated the trilobite, the more labour time invested in its preparation.

 

Even common Morrocan trilobites require considerable effort by diggers to extract, and several hours of preparation for quality specimens.

[Raulsaurus]

6 minutes ago, Kane said:

That is another way of asking the same question, but seeking a more vague response. 

 

Perhaps another way to think about value would be to consider the labour time, cost of tools, and some reasonable mark-up. What would you pay for, say, 25 hours of someone’s time? Usually, the nicer and more complicated the trilobite, the more labour time invested in its preparation.

Instead of answering questions that I have asked other users who have helped me, you could help me with the initial question of the post. I have already understood that I can not ask the prices. I did not ask again about the prices of the fossils, I have only clarified my question.

I do not know about hours of the trilobites preparation. I only asked about the price of this quality. 

I am a doctor and surely you do not know the price of an ankle surgery until you have a problem and visit another doctor.

Thank you.

[Fossildude19]

32 minutes ago, Raulsaurus said:

Instead of answering questions that I have asked other users who have helped me, you could help me with the initial question of the post. I have already understood that I can not ask the prices. I did not ask again about the prices of the fossils, I have only clarified my question.

I do not know about hours of the trilobites preparation. I only asked about the price of this quality. 

I am a doctor and surely you do not know the price of an ankle surgery until you have a problem and visit another doctor.

Thank you.

 

Any discussion of prices should be done via Private Message. 

We do not like to discuss commercial endeavors here on the Forum, which includes market price, worth, or insurance value. 

Your best bet is to do a bit of research, check the same fossils at fossil dealers, and get an idea as to how much a similar specimen will sell for.   

Regards, 

 

[doushantuo]

while keeping in mind that is is Coltraneia and Hollardops

[Raulsaurus]

27 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

 

Any discussion of prices should be done via Private Message. 

We do not like to discuss commercial endeavors here on the Forum, which includes market price, worth, or insurance value. 

Your best bet is to do a bit of research, check the same fossils at fossil dealers, and get an idea as to how much a similar specimen will sell for.   

Regards, 

 

No problem!! Thank you so much

[Raulsaurus]

27 minutes ago, doushantuo said:

while keeping in mind that is is Coltraneia and Hollardops

Do you think are good quality ?? Thank you.

[doushantuo]

I'll NOT answer the question,because i am not an expert on the preparation of fossils.

Kane ,Fossildude and a host of others are much better qualified.

 

[gigantoraptor]

1: Hollardops mesocristata

2: Morocconites malladoides

3: Zlichovaspis  rugosa (also called Odontochile)

4: Coltraneia oufatenensis

5: Comura bultyncki

6: Erbenochile erbeni

7: Walliserops trifurcatus

[aeon.rocks]

Quote

Do you think are good pieces?

Can you tell me market prices for these pieces?

The preparator show me other rare pieces, like these:

 

It's good, although commercial quality, yes. It's forum policy not to talk about value, I hope one day we see this same policy about stereotypes too.

 

Anyway, do your research, if you google the names long enough, I'm sure you will get a feeling about the value of different species and different preparations: Hollardops, Morocconites, Zlichovaspis (Odontochile is a different genus), Coltraneia, Comura, Erenochille, Walliserops... Maybe you'll learn something else too. Quick commercial prep costs less, high quality preparation costs more, but it's difficult to talk about value, as already mentioned it all depends first on sellers, then on species, preservation, prep time, position of trilobite, type of preparation (flying stile usually costs more, takes longer to prep), difficulty of preparation, rarity and usually the resellers margins...

 

Price should reflect in quality and difficulty of preparation anyway, but Moroccan prep-rates are underrated, so actually I'm pretty sure you could purchase these for a lot less as the value should be, if considering all time and effort invested or compared to trilobites from USA or Russia. Some Moroccans work for 1-3$/hour and even rates of high quality preparators are up to 10x cheaper, generally speaking, because a lot depends on quality and each species:

 

https://www.facebook.com/FosiliSlovenije/photos/a.516367441716638/2104092022944164/?type=3&theater

[Raulsaurus]

9 hours ago, aeon.rocks said:

 

It's good, although commercial quality, yes. It's forum policy not to talk about value, I hope one day we see this same policy about stereotypes too.

 

Anyway, do your research, if you google the names long enough, I'm sure you will get a feeling about the value of different species and different preparations: Hollardops, Morocconites, Zlichovaspis (Odontochile is a different genus), Coltraneia, Comura, Erenochille, Walliserops... Maybe you'll learn something else too. Quick commercial prep costs less, high quality preparation costs more, but it's difficult to talk about value, as already mentioned it all depends first on sellers, then on species, preservation, prep time, position of trilobite, type of preparation (flying stile usually costs more, takes longer to prep), difficulty of preparation, rarity and usually the resellers margins...

 

Price should reflect in quality and difficulty of preparation anyway, but Moroccan prep-rates are underrated, so actually I'm pretty sure you could purchase these for a lot less as the value should be, if considering all time and effort invested or compared to trilobites from USA or Russia. Some Moroccans work for 1-3$/hour and even rates of high quality preparators are up to 10x cheaper, generally speaking, because a lot depends on quality and each species:

 

Thank you so much for all your help.

So what is better quality than comercial? Museum quality? Is posible get pieces with better quality?

 

[Auspex]

2 hours ago, aeon.rocks said:

I hope one day we see this same policy about stereotypes too.

Still tilting that windmill, I see.
Sadly, the stereotype is deeply rooted, but it is undeniable that fossil fakery is an industry, and that Morocco counts its share of purveyors. Like all stereotypes, it is applied too broadly, as there are beautiful, genuine fossils from Morocco too. Caution is wise, and any buyer should learn to think critically before spending their money. It is foolish to do otherwise.

The Fossil Forum will never constrain anyone from discussing their misgivings about fraudulent fossils, and encourages discussion about how to recognize them.

[aeon.rocks]

Quote

Thank you so much for all your help.

So what is better quality than comercial? Museum quality? Is posible get pieces with better quality?

 

No such thing as museum quality, that's usually imho just a marketing term. There are different preservation and preparation grades (which sometimes reflect in damage and preparation marks you can see or some missing details), but what I mean with commercial is (not in a negative way) simply prepared in way or a reasonable time to be able to offer a reasonable price. It reflects in typical Moroccan style also, considering the bulk of matrix is usually removed quickly with a grinder - a lot of experience needed to not cut too much.... Or in example - some spines are often removed and glued in the end in some spiny Moroccan trilobites, which speeds up the prep, does not take anything away from the beauty or authenticity, not easy to glue spines back accurately either, so not fun nor any less valuable. It's just a technique to help save time in the prep, which could otherwise take a lot longer (it's not a soft matrix). Air-scribe marks sometimes seen in common Phacopsids are also the result of a quick way to find the trilobite and getting it out of the matrix. Loss of some microscopic details (which most people don't care about anyway) can also be the result of a quick way to get the specimen out of the matrix with too agressive sandblasting, also the case for some trilobites from other countries... It's impossible to avoid the loss of some microscopic details in preparation of most fossils however, especially the tricky ones... But make no mistake, these are all quality preped specimens, especially the spiny ones are prepared with details (magnification used) by Moroccan master preparators. I am sure a lot of hours was spent... Can easily take over 50 hours to prep a spiny Walliserops or Erbenochille like that, by a very skilled Moroccan preparator who can work fast, probably took more. Ask about prep time...

 

Quote

Is possible to get pieces of better quality?

Some species better preserved? Yes, in example in case of 3 bugs - nicer articulated...  But not much better; about as good prepared as it can be (ok, depends if you like flying style), a little bit more microscopic details could maybe be possible to preserve, donno, difficult to say from pics, but not reasonable considering time invested. 

 

Quote

Still tilting that windmill, I see.
 

 

 

Was simply meant: criticism with arguments, reasoned evaluations, giving opinions based on facts and observation, explanations why we think something is fake or restored. In example why we thing something is partially reconstructed or why we think something is a composition. Simply because we heard Moroccans do that sort of things? Helps people learn too.