Deer Prairie Creek Preserve Fossil Hunting

[Gaver]

Are we allowed to search for fossils (sieve and shovel) in the Deer Prairie Creek Preserve in North Port Fl. ?

 

G

[digit]

Good question. I know that the Florida fossil permit fossil hunting in navigable (non-private) waters. You should have a Florida fossil permit if you are planning to find and keep vertebrate fossils in Florida--with the exception of shark teeth which are so numerous that they may be kept without permit.

 

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/vertpaleo/amateur-collector/fossil-permit/permit-application/

 

There are areas of public waterways however where there are exceptions to this rule. The Peace River is probably the best known waterway in South Florida for fossil hunting (and a frequent topic of discussion among TFF members from Florida). Though you can generally collect in the Peace River as long as you are putting in your watercraft at public access points and not trespassing on private property to access the river. The Paynes Creek Historic State Park borders the Peace River to the west near the town of Bowling Green. You may not launch a watercraft from this park with the intention of collecting fossils and the word on the street is that it is not even allowed to collect fossils from the stretch of the Peace that adjoins the park. The legalities of this restriction have always seemed fuzzy as the border of the park is probably the water's edge but this is such a tiny segment of the Peace River (and I'm not even sure if there is any gravel exposed in this section of the river) so it is an easy matter to just avoid this section and hunt elsewhere.

 

State Parks and National Parks (in general--there are exceptions) usually have rules against removing anything from the park--the "take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but footprints" rule that just makes sense. What would the Petrified Forest National Park in Arizona look like if we all carried out what we liked in our backpacks? I'm not sure what the status is of Deer Prairie Creek Preserve in Sarasota County. They do have a network of trails and canoe launches in the preserve. I still have not found out if fishing is permitted in the preserve but I suspect it might be. I'm not sure what the water depths are like in this preserve or if gravel beds containing fossil material may be found in the preserve. I've got some connections up in Gainesville so I'll ask around and see if I can get a solid answer on this.

 

https://www.scgov.net/Home/ShowDocument?id=30326

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

EDIT: Found this site which confirms canoeing and fishing is allowed.

 

https://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us/recreation/myakka-river-deer-prairie-creek

[digit]

I wonder if Jack @Shellseeker has any experience in this waterway? He might already know if there are waters shallow enough to wade through poking around for gravel beds. I know that most folks stay out of the Myakka River (and only pass over it in watercraft) as I do recall it having the reputation for being paved with alligators (possibly only a slight exaggeration). 

 

Email sent off to Gainesville. I'll post if I get a reply one way or another.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Sacha]

46 minutes ago, digit said:

You may not launch a watercraft from this park with the intention of collecting fossils and the word on the street is that it is not even allowed to collect fossils from the stretch of the Peace that adjoins the park. The legalities of this restriction have always seemed fuzzy as the border of the park is probably the water's edge but this is such a tiny segment of the Peace River (and I'm not even sure if there is any gravel exposed in this section of the river) so it is an easy matter to just avoid this section and hunt elsewhere.

 

Ken, my understanding is that no collection is allowed in navigable waterways in sections adjacent to Parks, state conservation areas, etc. I got that from Hulbert (I think) when I was asking about certain access points on the Suwannee.

[digit]

Ah, conservation areas as well. I knew this applied to state and national parks. Dropped an email to Dr. Hulbert but he'll be out at the Montbrook site on Monday and likely won't get to check his email in the office till Tuesday earliest. Will relay any additional information when I hear it.

 

(Still watching the river gauges and trying to get them to drop a bit more by sheer force of will.)

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[jcbshark]

I’m under the same impression as John... I also heard from a couple other hunters that you can’t dig in the “wild and scenic” areas of the Myakka river either

[digit]

From Dr. Richard Hulbert at the Florida Museum of Natural History (issuer of the Florida Vertebrate Fossil Permits):

 

To paraphrase the letter which is mailed to everyone when they first get their State of Florida fossil collecting permit, always check with local officials of Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation and other land managers before going to collect fossils in a new area to see what is (or is not) allowed in that part of the state. Clearly explain exactly what collecting methods you intend to use.  If permission is granted, get this in writing to avoid potential conflicts with field officers of the FWC. Although there is some variation between them, the state’s water management districts are generally opposed to fossil collecting on lands and areas they control.

 

Thought I'd pass this along here in an effort to educate.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[dalmayshun]

I noticed your interest in my post about a stream in north port,  and thought I'd reassure you the place I collected the fossils I posted was NOT in Deer prairie creek wildlife management area.  I do have friends that go there to picnic, but haven't ever been there myself.  the place i go is actually along  the back property line of a friend's house...a few other people have asked me where,  but because my friend doesn't want strangers traipsing through his yard,  I promised i wouldn't say where it  was. i know others collect in northport also,  but don't know  where they go either.  

 

If you are interested in learning areas,  join one of the local fossil clubs.  you'll be able to go on trips and get information from others on where they collect.  as it becomes more and more difficult to gain permission,  you'll find that fossil hunters must be somewhat reluctant to reveal their own scouted out locations.  

     I had one such experience sharing a place I had scouted and obtained permission to collect in Immokkalee, I went back a few months later and was refused permission because I had shared the location  and others had gone there without permission.  I abide by the rules, but that episode taught me to be super cautious about giving details of my own spots, versus the very public ones like the  Peace River. 

[Gaver]

Thanks to all for the information.

@digit "Paved with Alligators" sounds rather ominus to me. I noticed nearly all the pictures of Myaka include various sized alligators in them. Yikes!

@dalmayshun - yes, your experience in North Port captured my interest. 

To all others - thanks for all the information about interpretation of the rules for searching in riverbeds, was very informative.

 

G

[Shellseeker]

On 12/17/2018 at 5:17 AM, Gaver said:

Thanks to all for the information.

@digit "Paved with Alligators" sounds rather ominus to me. I noticed nearly all the pictures of Myaka include various sized alligators in them. Yikes!

@dalmayshun - yes, your experience in North Port captured my interest. 

To all others - thanks for all the information about interpretation of the rules for searching in riverbeds, was very informative.

 

G

Apologies for my delay in responding. My son was married in Miami Sunday and Monday morning I was fishing in Biscayne Bay for "sails".

Indeed, in the spring of 2015, I attempted permission to get into Deer Prairie Creek Preserve and failed. There is a manager for every "Preserve" in Florida and you need to get permission from that individual.  Does "I am a  fox and would like to visit your hen house" ring true? Managers would like to preserve in pristine mode. Removing extremely valuable fossils from waterways does not  qualify.

Having failed there, I decided to head up the Myakka river in April and May of 2015. I launched at Laurel Road park.

I found 3 productive locations in the Myakka river... it is a LONG distance by river to here...

This is looking downstream, a Horse riding path coming from DPCP crossing the Myakka to private property on the right.. a lot of small teeth, some hemis, etc marine based. 

I continued upstream , crossing a small Dam, until I reached the 1st few LARGE gators. The river was thirty feet wide, the gators 12-13 feet .. I chose not to get in the clear water to dig for fossils..  I have not been back...

 

[Shellseeker]

Found some other photos

My canoe trail in 2015 in Red.  The Gator deep hole generally looks like this in the spring..

[digit]

I prefer my alligator teeth to be of the fossilized variety.

 

I'll stick to the Peace River, thank you.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Adam86cucv]

3 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

Found some other photos

My canoe trail in 2015 in Red.  The Gator deep hole generally looks like this in the spring..

Umm nope, no way, pass... I certainly don't need a fossil that bad.

[Gaver]

22 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

My canoe trail in 2015 in Red.  The Gator deep hole generally looks like this in the spring..

I was planning on taking my wife on the trip. I'm pretty sure showing her this thread will result in us spending the day in a shopping center somewhere instead of a river searching for fossils. 

 

On a side note - I have a friend that returned last week from the Keys - where he and his friends caught 5 sailfish on a charter trip.

 

Thanks again for the information.

Quick Question - have you tried any of the smaller creeks on the mayaka near the Myrtle J. Riverside Retreat?

 

 

(sorry about all the images - I can't figure out how to delete them after posting them).

 

G

 

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Gaver
Delete images?

[Shellseeker]

1 hour ago, Gaver said:

I was planning on taking my wife on the trip. I'm pretty sure showing her this thread will result in us spending the day in a shopping center somewhere instead of a river searching for fossils. 

 

On a side note - I have a friend that returned last week from the Keys - where he and his friends caught 5 sailfish on a charter trip.

 

Thanks again for the information.

Quick Question - have you tried any of the smaller creeks on the mayaka near the Myrtle J. Riverside Retreat?

To be clear,  I did not reach the Myakka Lake deep hole. I turned downstream when I saw the 1st of these large gators. There are some risks that even I do not take.

 

Photo from Monday around 11 am... what a thrill.  Immediately released...

 

No, In 2015 I have yet to make connections to TFF members in that areas for guidance in Myakka creeks. Maybe Jeff will have some insights. @jcbshark

[jcbshark]

I haven't tried those particular creeks but it looks pretty marshy out there.... I'd imagine it may be a lot more digging thru muck than finding but if you have the ambition it could be worth a look. I've been surprised before Good luck either way

[jcbshark]

4 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

To be clear,  I did not reach the Myakka Lake deep hole. I turned downstream when I saw the 1st of these large gators. There are some risks that even I do not take.

 

Photo from Monday around 11 am... what a thrill.  Immediately released...

 

No, In 2015 I have yet to make connections to TFF members in that areas for guidance in Myakka creeks. Maybe Jeff will have some insights. @jcbshark

Beautiful sail Jack! Congrats

[MeargleSchmeargl]

On 12/18/2018 at 11:14 AM, Shellseeker said:

..

If you wanna become a coprolite in the making, sure, hunting here is a good idea!

 

 

 

Otherwise, yeah...no.

[Gaver]

13 hours ago, jcbshark said:

I haven't tried those particular creeks but it looks pretty marshy out there.... I'd imagine it may be a lot more digging thru muck than finding but if you have the ambition it could be worth a look. I've been surprised before Good luck either way

@jcbshark Thank you!

 

G