ThePhysicist Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Hey yall! These are a couple of items that were found in the North Sulfur River that I am uncertain about what they are. One appears to be bone, but has a rather porous and bubbly side and a flat and smooth other side. The other looks to be enamel, possibly from mastodon?? Thank you! 1 "Argumentation cannot suffice for the discovery of new work, since the subtlety of Nature is greater many times than the subtlety of argument." - Carl Sagan "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." - Richard Feynman Collections: Hell Creek Microsite | Hell Creek/Lance | Dinosaurs | Sharks | Squamates | Post Oak Creek | North Sulphur River | Lee Creek | Aguja | Permian | Devonian | Triassic | Harding Sandstone Instagram: @thephysicist_tff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Not sure about the first piece, but the second is a piece of agate (not fossil). 3 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSRhunter Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Second is a piece of mastodon tooth probably( more likely) or mammoth tooth enamel. First looks like definite bone, hmm possibly even a pynchodontid like fish jaw but would need more images to be certain. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 47 minutes ago, ynot said: Not sure about the first piece, but the second is a piece of agate (not fossil). It does look like some forms of agate but that would be very rare at this site. More likely something with calcite parts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, BobWill said: It does look like some forms of agate but that would be very rare at this site. More likely something with calcite parts. I have seen several pieces of translucent microcrystalline quartz (agate) from NSR. Most were petrified wood of unknown age. 3 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomotodon Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 First one is a turtle scute fragment, second - I agree with @NSRhunter, is a mammal tooth fragment. 3 The Tooth Fairy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 5 hours ago, Anomotodon said: I agree with @NSRhunter, is a mammal tooth fragment. I have seen a lot of agate that looks just like this piece, have never seen a tooth that has that much translucency, or that rough of a surface. I still say the second piece is an agate. 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 2 hours ago, ynot said: I have seen a lot of agate that looks just like this piece, have never seen a tooth that has that much translucency, or that rough of a surface. I still say the second piece is an agate. It may be. A hardness test will confirm that. @ThePhysicist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSRhunter Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 I'll post pics later of my examples from the Sulphur River Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhysicist Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 thank yall! "Argumentation cannot suffice for the discovery of new work, since the subtlety of Nature is greater many times than the subtlety of argument." - Carl Sagan "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." - Richard Feynman Collections: Hell Creek Microsite | Hell Creek/Lance | Dinosaurs | Sharks | Squamates | Post Oak Creek | North Sulphur River | Lee Creek | Aguja | Permian | Devonian | Triassic | Harding Sandstone Instagram: @thephysicist_tff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 @ThePhysicist could you test the hardness of the translucent portion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 i'm in the mastodon tooth frag camp for the second one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, garyc said: i'm in the mastodon tooth frag camp for the second one. What characteristics make You say that? Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhysicist Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 I took some more closeups of the agate/enamel. The hardness is about 6. "Argumentation cannot suffice for the discovery of new work, since the subtlety of Nature is greater many times than the subtlety of argument." - Carl Sagan "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." - Richard Feynman Collections: Hell Creek Microsite | Hell Creek/Lance | Dinosaurs | Sharks | Squamates | Post Oak Creek | North Sulphur River | Lee Creek | Aguja | Permian | Devonian | Triassic | Harding Sandstone Instagram: @thephysicist_tff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhysicist Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 "Argumentation cannot suffice for the discovery of new work, since the subtlety of Nature is greater many times than the subtlety of argument." - Carl Sagan "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." - Richard Feynman Collections: Hell Creek Microsite | Hell Creek/Lance | Dinosaurs | Sharks | Squamates | Post Oak Creek | North Sulphur River | Lee Creek | Aguja | Permian | Devonian | Triassic | Harding Sandstone Instagram: @thephysicist_tff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 On 12/31/2018 at 6:08 PM, ynot said: What characteristics make You say that? With the new pics, I’m not so sure. I was basing my opinion on the whitish edge that is very characteristic of mastodon enamel. Now I see there is a lot more of the whitish translucency throughout the piece. Also, when I posted previously it was New Years Eve and I’d already started celebrating!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 24 minutes ago, garyc said: With the new pics, I’m not so sure. I was basing my opinion on the whitish edge that is very characteristic of mastodon enamel. Now I see there is a lot more of the whitish translucency throughout the piece. Also, when I posted previously it was New Years Eve and I’d already started celebrating!! happy new year. I thought the first one looked like alligator or croc scute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimTexan Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 The first piece I cannot verify turtle. @JarrodB could tell you as well as @Foshunter. What it looks like to me is the partially phosphatized material I find in the dark gray crumbly clay of the red zone. That stuff is loaded with phosphatic material. Sometimes I find these pieces of stuff. It is light gray, pitted and amorphous. I don’t know the name for it is, but I have concluded it Is partially phosphatized and didn’t turn black. I have found baculites where one end was phosphatized and the other end is what I just described. It is softer than the phosphatized material and is almost always pitted. Most of the turtle I see in the NSR is smooth, not pitted. Gator and croc scutes are pitted. This is NSR turtle material. Other side. Not to say there isn’t another variety of turtle out there. There is definitely chalcedony of some variety that is abundant in the NSR. Petrified wood is a common fossil found that is preserved in chalcedony in the NSR. I’ve got lots of it. I have also found quartz a few times. Once as in beautiful druzy form. I don’t know if it is a tooth fragment or not, but it sure looks like a form of chalcedony to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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