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Is this part of a squid beak?


Chris Parry

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I found this yesterday on Bracklesham Bay beach and I think it could be the end of a squid beak. Can anyone confirm whether my guess is correct? Thanks Chris

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Could also be part of an Aristotle's lantern.

Accomplishing the impossible means only that the boss will add it to your regular duties.

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If it is a squid beak it's almost certainly not a fossil as they're vanishingly rare and not preserved solid like that.

 

Not sure what it is though - it's the wrong shape for a Belosaepia shell "prong" which is often mistakenly called a beak, and too narrow for a nautilus beak (which are quite common sometimes though hyper rare in the UK Eocene and a different, much squatter shape).

 

The fibrous structure doesn't look like Aristotle's lantern which is calcite.

 

Claw or bird beak???

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Tarquin

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A rarely preserved or cast of a phragmocone of a coleoid? Or maybe a oddly preserved piece of a pedunculate barnacle? But definitely not a squid "beak".

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image.png.0c956e87cee523facebb6947cb34e842.png May 2016  MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png.a47e14d65deb3f8b242019b3a81d8160.png.b42a25e3438348310ba19ce6852f50c1.png May 2012 IPFOTM5.png.fb4f2a268e315c58c5980ed865b39e1f.png.1721b8912c45105152ac70b0ae8303c3.png.2b6263683ee32421d97e7fa481bd418a.pngAug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png.af5065d0585e85f4accd8b291bf0cc2e.png.72a83362710033c9bdc8510be7454b66.png.9171036128e7f95de57b6a0f03c491da.png Oct 2022

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10 minutes ago, ynot said:

@Auspex should know if it is bird or not.

Thanks, Tony!

 

Yes, it is a bird beak; you can see the edge of the nares (on left, at top). I wish it were datable!

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Thanks @Auspex, what sort of bird would it have come from? Is there any way to get an indication of the date. Does the location from which it was found not help?

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22 minutes ago, Auspex said:

Thanks, Tony!

 

Yes, it is a bird beak; you can see the edge of the nares (on left, at top). I wish it were datable!

 

 

10 minutes ago, Chris Parry said:

Thanks @Auspex, what sort of bird would it have come from? Is there any way to get an indication of the date. Does the location from which it was found not help?

Bird bones do occur in the Bracklesham Beds (Eocene) so it could be a very rare fossil if it's not modern. :)

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Tarquin

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51 minutes ago, Chris Parry said:

Cool. Is there anyway of telling if it's modern?

By appearance it is not recent, but that has no scientific merit as a determiner of age. Had it been found in situ in the matrix, we could confidently date it. Coming from "float", it cannot be dated by the local deposit. Absent a positive identification ascribing it to an extinct species (simply not possible with generic beaks), certainty will be elusive.

A 'poor-man's test' is to check it for collagen (which normally breaks down during the mineralization process). This test is to apply a red hot probe to an inconspicuous spot, giving it a sniff as you do. If it smells like burnt hair, it is probably not ancient.

 

It certainly has the look; I like it!

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"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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I collect modern skulls and this looks very much like the keratinized part of a birds beak to me. This is the structure that covers over the bone of the mandible. Without any scale it would be difficult to get very specific on which type of bird it may have come from. Unfortunately, it could be recent of older, as birds have been around for  a while. 

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If it (as appears in the image) to be pyritic, that would be a marker of an ancient origin.

14 hours ago, ClearLake said:

this looks very much like the keratinized part of a birds beak to me

To me, its texture looks like the pyritized underlying bone premaxillary. It is just the portion in front of and below the nostril.
The keratin bill sheath would not endure what this appears to have been through. An image in proximal end view would settle it.

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"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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2 hours ago, Auspex said:

To me, its texture looks like the pyritized underlying bone premaxillary. It is just the portion in front of and below the nostril.
The keratin bill sheath would not endure what this appears to have been through. An image in proximal end view would settle it

I would agree totally if indeed it is pyritized (or even “ heavy”) I just did not get that impression from the pictures. The very first picture (from the bottom of the beak) looked hollow to me and has a texture I have seen in the sheaths. It does look a little beat up, but beyond that I’m just guessing as to its condition from the pictures. 

 

Is it hollow?  Is it lightweight (I know that is very relative, but relative to the other items you found for its size)?  Here are a couple of modern examples of what I am talking about. The second picture (with the tape measure) looks about the size of yours and similar type shape. It is from a blue jay. Not sure what you have in England but I remember some sort of jay bird from over there. 

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