Unknown bones

[beachcomber]

Please excuse the quality of the pics, they were taken with my iPad. These two were found in a shell wash on Manasota Beach, Englewood Fl.

One looks like a limb bone, and the second one maybe a partial periotic bone?  Thanks in advance.

 

[fossilus]

Longer bone is a calcaneus. Bovine? (Cow, bison)

[SailingAlongToo]

@Harry Pristis

[Harry Pristis]

 

Fossilus has it right . . . a cow calcaneum.

 

 

[LordTrilobite]

I disagree.

 

The bone is definitely a calcaneum. But I think it's from a deer, not a bovid.

Granted, these bones are very similar in these two groups. But deer calcanea have a more straight rectangular shape, while those of bovids have a slightly more triangular shape where the tip of the heel slightly converges into a point. This can be nicely seen in the picture @Harry Pristis posted. The bison calcaneum is fatter towards the top and slimmer towards the tip at the bottom. Though it's much more subtle on the cow bone, this same angle is still here. But when we look at the deer calcaneum the angles are slightly different. The deer bone is just slightly more rectangular where the tip isn't much slimmer than the complex towards the top in the photo.

 

 

This can also be seen in in the Pleistocene bovids and Megaloceros/Giant deer in Europe. Their calcanea are nearly identical in size and shape except for this feature in the angles. Bison and deer examples from my collection.

 

 

So yeah, I think the calcaneum @beachcomber posted is from a type of deer.

[ynot]

I think the first is a river tumbled rock. The cavity in the middle may be from a eroded out fossil.

Does not have the correct texture for an ear bone.

[Plantguy]

2 hours ago, ynot said:

I think the first is a river tumbled rock. The cavity in the middle may be from a eroded out fossil.

Does not have the correct texture for an ear bone.

Hey Tony, I' can see the tumbled rock idea but I believe it looks more like at bulla due to its overall shape and might be from a manatee/dugong...I dont have any examples of those to show but I'll see if I can find a reference to compare to.  

Regards, Chris 

[Harry Pristis]

 

For comparison:

 

[Plantguy]

Harry what do you think about the other unknown...Dont you have some manatee/dugong periotic/bulla photos to compare to the other item? 

Regards, Chris 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Plantguy
spelling edit

[Harry Pristis]

14 hours ago, Plantguy said:

Harry what do you think about the other unknown...Dont you have some manatee/dugong periotic/bulla photos to compare to the other item? 

Regards, Chris 

 

I have no clue about the incised pebble.  It's not a bulla of anything familiar.

 

Dugongid periotics

[ynot]

48 minutes ago, Plantguy said:

it looks more like at bulla due to its overall shape

It does have a vague resemblance to some cetatean periodics, but the shape is not quite right and the texture is not like the periodics/bulla I have seen.

Maybe @Boesse will give His opinion.

[digit]

The "partial periotic" does trigger the some of the search image features for such a fossil and I'd certainly have taken it home to compare with images of actual periotics. Tossing in an alternative guess here--could it be a gastropod cast?

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Plantguy]

On 1/8/2019 at 9:47 PM, Harry Pristis said:

 

I have no clue about the incised pebble.  It's not a bulla of anything familiar.

 

Dugongid periotics

 

On 1/8/2019 at 10:12 PM, ynot said:

It does have a vague resemblance to some cetatean periodics, but the shape is not quite right and the texture is not like the periodics/bulla I have seen.

Maybe @Boesse will give His opinion.

Thanks Harry/Tony..hoping Bobby might see some resemblance to something. 

Regards, Chris 

[Plantguy]

On 1/9/2019 at 9:46 AM, digit said:

The "partial periotic" does trigger the some of the search image features for such a fossil and I'd certainly have taken it home to compare with images of actual periotics. Tossing in an alternative guess here--could it be a gastropod cast?

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

Hey Ken, I was staring at this some more and comparing it to some photos and although I can see a possible gastropod cast my brain still wants to turn that curved small channeled area into a cochlear canal and make the other holes into the other openings in a small whale/dolphin type petrosal fragment. Hoping the experts can shoot me down/confirm. 

Regards, Chris 

[Boesse]

Thanks @Plantguy for messaging me this - the first thing is the cochlear portion of a baleen whale bulla that has been snapped off the rest of the petrosal/periotic, giving us a great cross-section through the spiral cochlea itself.