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msantix

Are these Plesiosaur vertebra's?

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msantix

Saw this for sale, and was wondering if these are Plesiosaur vertebra's?. The fossil is from the Goulmima region in South - Eastern Morocco. Thanks.

 

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msantix

Sorry, forgot to mention, this topic i believe belongs in the fossil id thread.

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msantix
19 minutes ago, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

I believe there is some wrong because it does not seem natural to me:

 

image.png.ab7646e120c3a059e03cd614663f553b.png

 

:wacko: It's looking like a frustrated attempt at a composition.

 

That is interesting, the seller did say that the second and fourth vertebra has some putty, but the ones you have highlighted are the last two (no 5 & 6). 

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Seguidora-de-Isis
18 minutes ago, msantix said:

 

That is interesting, the seller did say that the second and fourth vertebra has some putty, but the ones you have highlighted are the last two (no 5 & 6). 

 

:wacko: My advice is you get away from it... Apparently this is all united by a strange mass! Sorry but and even the anatomy of this terrible composition is completely wrong.

 

:dinothumb:

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daves64

I noticed they aren't showing the other side... I wonder why.. :headscratch:

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msantix
4 minutes ago, daves64 said:

I noticed they aren't showing the other side... I wonder why.. :headscratch:

Actually there is a picture of the other side, it is my fault i didn't post it before, anyway the other side looks like this...

 

s-l1600.jpg

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TyBoy

Cannot help you with the ID but looks real, natural and appear to be caudal vertebrae 

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Ptychodus04

I don't agree with the chimera theory here. I regularly see vertebrae naturally preserved with matrix between them. With variations abounding in taphonomy, a particular preservation type may be common with many others possible. I have personally collected vertebrates from the same area with different types of preservation in the matrix. Bones do weird things in the ground.

 

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gigantoraptor
7 hours ago, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

However these vertebrae even with the broken processes are real and definitely of Plesiosaur. These vertebrae are quite typical of Moroccan phosphates. The Zarafasaura oceanis for the moment is the only Plesiosaur that was described in Morocco, so it is likely that these vertebrae are of Zarafasaura oceanis, but remember it is a compound of several vertebrae that may not be of the same animal but rather of several plesiosaurs!

The description says the fossil is from Goulmima region. Goulmima is Turonian in age while Zarafasaura oceanis is Maastrichtian in age. There are a few more plesiosaurs described here but I do not know how to tell them apart.

Thililua longicollis, Manemergus anguirostris and Libonectes atlasense (or L. morgani, I don't know the official name now) and maybe Brachauchenius lucasi are the only plesiosaurs I know are described from here but there might be more. 

 

Furthermore I think the fossil is natural but would like to see more angels.

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msantix
26 minutes ago, gigantoraptor said:

Furthermore I think the fossil is natural but would like to see more angels.

 

Sure, are any of these pictures helpful?

 

s-l1600.jpg

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s-l1600.jpg

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gigantoraptor
5 minutes ago, msantix said:

Sure, are any of these pictures helpful?

Yes. I stay with my opinion on these being real, although the preparation could have been beter. I also agree with Tyboy's post about these being caudal vertebrae.

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Seguidora-de-Isis

Well ... I'm here to help, but I'm here to learn, so I'm very happy if I'm wrong.
Particularly I have never seen in Morocco a matrix like this. This matrix does not present texture as the matrices that I am accustomed to see because this matrix is smooth, ie it looks like it was smoothed when the mass was still wet, and I also find it strange how the matrix moves around the bones, and it seems most of all it was set up as if a bricklayer had built a brick wall...

 

image.png.652b09c30864fb4d1022cd0dfabf426e.png

 

image.png.fda8e96bff981f1cb3e7be2824fe1e1e.png

 

"The seller did say that the second and fourth vertebra has some putty". So my question is: Has anyone seen where the mass is? I did not see, on the contrary, everything here looks alike. And this makes me suspicious. But like I said, I'm willing to learn. And I hope I'm wrong.

 

Our friend @LordTrilobite can also try to help us.

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LordTrilobite

Might have some work done to it but it looks like mostly original matrix and bones.

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Aurelius

It looks good to me. I wouldn't expect the same level of preservation from Goulmima as I would from the phosphate beds.

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Seguidora-de-Isis
2 hours ago, Aurelius said:

It looks good to me. I wouldn't expect the same level of preservation from Goulmima as I would from the phosphate beds.

 

I agree with you that one should not expect Goulmima to have the same level of preservation of phosphate beds. I had not thought of this side...

 

But even so the fossil of this post is not the kind of matrix that sits naturally by the fossil I would expect to find from Goulmima:

 

image.png.3e75cbe3c789f26f6b09128aca096b1b.png

 

Well, the bones are real anyway, that is, they are Plesiosaur's bones, and if the price is good it would be interesting to do a decent preparation on this specimen and check what is real in this mass. :dinothumb:

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caterpillar

I've not the fossil in my hand but like my friends I think it's real

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Welsh Wizard

Hi

 

it looks real to me and its a nice set of verts as well

 

Nick

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Ptychodus04
On 1/11/2019 at 12:31 PM, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

Well ... I'm here to help, but I'm here to learn, so I'm very happy if I'm wrong.
Particularly I have never seen in Morocco a matrix like this. This matrix does not present texture as the matrices that I am accustomed to see because this matrix is smooth, ie it looks like it was smoothed when the mass was still wet, and I also find it strange how the matrix moves around the bones, and it seems most of all it was set up as if a bricklayer had built a brick wall...

 

image.png.652b09c30864fb4d1022cd0dfabf426e.png

 

The “bricklayer” look is really not very odd. This is often the case when there is significant decomposition prior to burial. The bones have a chance to separate and the matrix fills the gaps. 

 

Most pieces that are cobbled together have an almost too perfect look to them. This certainly does not have that look.

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msantix

Thanks everyone for your help, it is greatly appreciated. I purchased the fossil and it should be arriving soon......However there is something that is concerning me and that is that the seller has listed another fossil almost exactly like this one. It contains four vertebrae and a rib (9 inches in length). Should i consider this a red flag? because i am wondering what the chances of having two sets of plesiosaur vertebraes from the same area with each set having a rib just above. The description is the same in that part of it has some putty but the rest in 100% natural and the matrix being heavy and hard. I am starting to worry that the fossil i bought might be a composite, do you think these concerns are valid? or shouldn't i worry? 

 

Here are the pics of the new set of plesiosaur verts.....

 

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Tidgy's Dad

I wouldn't be surprised that "if there's one, there's more'. 

Maybe even part of the same individual. 

Ribs are often found next to verts as they are connected to them. 

If one is real, the other probably is. 

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Flx

Both fossils look natural to me. It is quite normal that the ribs are laying there.

 

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Seguidora-de-Isis

This one is very good to me and looks like very real!

 

:dinothumb:

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TyBoy

They all look like great buys and very real. 

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