Is it impossible to get Giganotosaurus teeth?

[paulyb135]

5 minutes ago, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

 

Thanks for the pictures! A minor resemblance to Carcharodontosauridae Undetermined, but unfortunately it still does not fit very well with any of them: 

 

 

But even with this slight resemblance of the basal cross section, I do not believe your tooth is from a Carcharodontosauridae Undetermined. The shape of the tooth does not match and the serrations do not match either:

 

 

And with this format we can exclude other Carcharodontosaurids, such as Mapusaurus and Tyrannotitan...

 

The Carnotaurus has a relatively good fit here?

 

 

 

Maybe! But it's a good start!

 

 

Thank you for this! Very helpful and can tell a lot of effort was put in to it to try to get an ID.

 

Whatever tooth it is, as someone said it’s the best Argentine tooth he has seen as have I and I’m lucky it’s in my collection whatever it is! 

[Seguidora-de-Isis]

6 minutes ago, paulyb135 said:

 

Thank you for this! Very helpful and can tell a lot of effort was put in to it to try to get an ID.

 

Whatever tooth it is, as someone said it’s the best Argentine tooth he has seen as have I and I’m lucky it’s in my collection whatever it is! 

 

You are Welcome.

 

Definitely it's a beautiful tooth!

 

[Seguidora-de-Isis]

2 hours ago, paulyb135 said:

 

I am pretty confident the tooth is from Argentina based on who the original seller was who sold it to the collector before I got my hands on it 

 

According to what you said, and if my calculations are correct...

 

 

This tooth was discovered in Argentina in the year 1996. In 1996 this tooth left Argentina and went to the United States. Between 2017 and 2018 you bought this tooth, and this tooth left the United States and is now with you in London. This tooth has a lot of history!

 

 

Take good care of this tooth, it's a precious thing! 

[paulyb135]

Your calculations are almost correct however in 2018 it was traded rather than bought! 

 

Very close inspector 

 

it will be well looked after its a thing of beauty! 

[TyBoy]

The cross-section of the base of large theropod Teeth is more a function of position in the jaw.  Lower Anterior teeth tend to be more oval and lateral teeth compressed.  

 

A more important diagnostic  feature is the distal edge of the carina.  In Abelisaurids the distal edge is perpendicular to the base and not recurved like paulyb135 tooth.  So it's probably not any Abelisaurid like Carnotaurus and some other theropod.

[paulyb135]

47 minutes ago, TyBoy said:

The cross-section of the base of large theropod Teeth is more a function of position in the jaw.  Lower Anterior teeth tend to be more oval and lateral teeth compressed.  

 

A more important diagnostic  feature is the distal edge of the carina.  In Abelisaurids the distal edge is perpendicular to the base and not recurved like paulyb135 tooth.  So it's probably not any Abelisaurid like Carnotaurus and some other theropod.

 

So what do you think it may be

[TyBoy]

I don't without knowing exactly where its from and you really need an expert to look at it.   You might get to a family with a multi variate analysis like Troodon always suggests.  

Here are some images of Carch type teeth from South America

 

[paulyb135]

14 minutes ago, TyBoy said:

I don't without knowing exactly where its from and you really need an expert to look at it.   You might get to a family with a multi variate analysis like Troodon always suggests.  

Here are some images of Carch type teeth from South America

 

 

It certainly looks nothing like teeth from

those images.

 

I may leave it at the fact I have a super Argentine tooth and will continue to cherish such a rare fossil 

[gigantoraptor]

55 minutes ago, paulyb135 said:

 

It certainly looks nothing like teeth from

those images.

 

I may leave it at the fact I have a super Argentine tooth and will continue to cherish such a rare fossil 

I think that's the best option. It's a beautifel and incredible tooth. 

 

I don't think you'll ever be capable of IDing this tooth without location. 

The map below is just to show how many theropod (I think they're all theropods) dinosaurs there are known from Argentina. If you want to count the possibility of this tooth being from Uruguay in the number is even higher. Many of these have related species within Argentina with very similar teeth.

 

 

Even without location it's a magnificent tooth and a real pride to any collection.

[paulyb135]

9 minutes ago, gigantoraptor said:

I think that's the best option. It's a beautifel and incredible tooth. 

 

I don't think you'll ever be capable of IDing this tooth without location. 

The map below is just to show how many theropod (I think they're all theropods) dinosaurs there are known from Argentina. If you want to count the possibility of this tooth being from Uruguay in the number is even higher. Many of these have related species within Argentina with very similar teeth.

 

 

Even without location it's a magnificent tooth and a real pride to any collection.

Thank you!

 

It would be good to know but I don’t think it’s possible which makes it more unique I guess. 

 

Im very lucky to own it put it that way

[TyBoy]

This has been posted many times

 

 

[Oxalaia]

Nice tooth you have there @paulyb135 

[paulyb135]

1 hour ago, TyBoy said:

This has been posted many times

 

 

 

Probably as South American teeth are so sought after! 

 

Do you have any you can share? This topic has gained a lot of interest from several keen collectors 

[paulyb135]

5 hours ago, gayming said:

Nice tooth you have there @paulyb135 

Cheers thank you!

[JohnBrewer]

On 15/01/2019 at 9:54 PM, paulyb135 said:

 

I own an Argentine carcharodontosaurid which I got in a trade from an old collection last year where the tooth was acquired over 20 years ago which makes it very much legal. My question is, which species in your opinion would you assign it to or is that an impossible question? Here are a couple of images anyway. 

Beautiful ‘carcar’

[paulyb135]

16 minutes ago, JohnBrewer said:

Beautiful ‘carcar’

 

Thank you John

[Anomotodon]

On 1/16/2019 at 3:18 AM, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

 

Thanks for the pictures! A minor resemblance to Carcharodontosauridae Undetermined, but unfortunately it still does not fit very well with any of them: 

 

But even with this slight resemblance of the basal cross section, I do not believe your tooth is from a Carcharodontosauridae Undetermined. The shape of the tooth does not match and the serrations do not match either:

 

And with this format we can exclude other Carcharodontosaurids, such as Mapusaurus and Tyrannotitan...

 

The Carnotaurus has a relatively good fit here?

 

Maybe! But it's a good start!

 

And maybe that's why this tooth came to you labeled as a Carnotaurus tooth. 

 

 

 

This tooth is clearly not Abelisaurid because distal carina is not perpendicular to the base. Although, since precise stratigraphy of this tooth is uncertain (on the extinctions website it is described as from Allen formation, but there were no large theropods other than abelisaurids there which this tooth isn't), I don't see a reason why it couldn't belong to a Neovenatorid/Megaraptoran instead of Carcharodontosaurid, there were many species of all three families in Cretaceous South America.

 

As @TyBoy mentioned, let's try doing multivariate analysis on this tooth! @paulyb135, could you provide the following measurements, preferably as accurate as possible:

1) DC - distal mid-crown serration count per 5 mm

2) MC - mesial mid-crown serration count per 5 mm

3) CBW - crown base width

4) CBL - crown base length

5) CH - crown height

[Seguidora-de-Isis]

16 minutes ago, Anomotodon said:

This tooth is clearly not Abelisaurid...  As @TyBoy mentioned, let's try doing multivariate analysis on this tooth...

 

Particularly I think it will be very difficult. Multivariate analysis sometimes give us multivariate results.

 

But I wish you good luck!

[Oxalaia]

That tooth could be from a Carnotaurus

[paulyb135]

6 hours ago, Anomotodon said:

 

 

This tooth is clearly not Abelisaurid because distal carina is not perpendicular to the base. Although, since precise stratigraphy of this tooth is uncertain (on the extinctions website it is described as from Allen formation, but there were no large theropods other than abelisaurids there which this tooth isn't), I don't see a reason why it couldn't belong to a Neovenatorid/Megaraptoran instead of Carcharodontosaurid, there were many species of all three families in Cretaceous South America.

 

As @TyBoy mentioned, let's try doing multivariate analysis on this tooth! @paulyb135, could you provide the following measurements, preferably as accurate as possible:

1) DC - distal mid-crown serration count per 5 mm

2) MC - mesial mid-crown serration count per 5 mm

3) CBW - crown base width

4) CBL - crown base length

5) CH - crown height

 

I would love to try but I simply don’t have the tools or equipment that will allow me to do a count of the serrations.

 

Frank thinks it is a carcharodontosaurid and he told me that he doesn’t have a tooth from this country like mine so maybe that is most accurate? 

 

Its not a neovenatourid I don’t believe as the serrations go to the base of the tooth on both sides as per images again

[Seguidora-de-Isis]

And I agree with our dear friend Frank. Through the basal cross section this tooth bears similarities to a Carnotaurus (Abelisaurid), and it is perhaps for this reason that this tooth was labeled as Carnotaurus by the former seller. But in my life I've seen hundreds of teeth like this here in my country and in Uruguay to be confident enough to say that this is a beautiful tooth of a Carcharodontosaurid undetermined.

 

But I also agree with others, that is, the count of the serrations might help a bit, but unfortunately not much, because as I said before, multivariate analysis sometimes give us multivariate results in a context of two large countries extremely rich in fossils, but with so few published papers for more meticulous comparisons...

[paulyb135]

8 hours ago, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

And I agree with our dear friend Frank. Through the basal cross section this tooth bears similarities to a Carnotaurus (Abelisaurid), and it is perhaps for this reason that this tooth was labeled as Carnotaurus by the former seller. But in my life I've seen hundreds of teeth like this here in my country and in Uruguay to be confident enough to say that this is a beautiful tooth of a Carcharodontosaurid undetermined.

 

But I also agree with others, that is, the count of the serrations might help a bit, but unfortunately not much, because as I said before, multivariate analysis sometimes give us multivariate results in a context of two large countries extremely rich in fossils, but with so few published papers for more meticulous comparisons...

 

Do you have images of these teeth you’ve seen in your country (where is that) and Uruguay as I’d love to see teeth similar to mine as all the other Argentine teeth I’ve seen look nothing like mine. They’re smaller and nowhere near as good condition 

[paulyb135]

I’ve realised I never shared this screen shot from renowned palaeontologist, Christophe Hendrickx in relation to my tooth