Kato Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Hopefully this will be quick and easy for those who have the knowledge. I was meandering in the hills and came across some horn corals. I am used to calling the smaller one on the left a horn coral. I am presuming the one on the right also a horn coral. Would someone kindly provide sufficient naming to each so I can do some offline research and reading? Apologies for fuzzy pic. Camera seemed to only want to focus on the backdrop material. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearLake Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Do you know the age? I have a picture in my Ohio Fossils book of a Lophophyllidium profundum from the Pennsylvanian that looks similar to the one on the right. And in Texas there are a couple of species of Lophophyllidium in the Pennsylvanian and Permian. The grooved exterior is supposedly diagnostic. But I am not a coral expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, ClearLake said: Do you know the age? I have a picture in my Ohio Fossils book of a Lophophyllidium profundum from the Pennsylvanian that looks similar to the one on the right. And in Texas there are a couple of species of Lophophyllidium in the Pennsylvanian and Permian. The grooved exterior is supposedly diagnostic. But I am not a coral expert. Yeah, that's what I thought when I was researching which really threw me for a loop because I was solidly in the upper Mississippian in a place where there was just about zero chance of Pennsylvanian debris intermixing. I was well into an overhung area. Overhang was at least 30ft. The top of the ridge above this was also all Mississippian. The closest Pennsylvanian formations were 1/2 mile to the south. and I picked the apparent Pennsylvanian type coral out of purplish band. From top to bottom that is at least 12ft of formations having crinoids, brachiopods and horn corals. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Horn corals are very difficult to ID from the exterior alone unless the area is well studied and the exterior of the coral is distinctive. Usually they are only identified only by structures visible in thin sections. See this paper about Mississippian New Mexican corals. MISSISSIPPIAN CORALS FROM NEW MEXICO AND A RELATED PENNSYLVANIAN SPECIES By MISSISSIPPIAN CORALS FROM NEW MEXICO AND A RELATED PENNSYLVANIAN SPECIES By RUSSELL M. JEFFORDS https://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/bitstream/handle/1808/3791/paleo.article.016op.pdf?sequence=3&isAllowed=y 5 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, DPS Ammonite said: Horn corals are very difficult to ID from the exterior alone unless the area is well studied and the exterior of the coral is distinctive. Usually they are only identified only by structures visible in thin sections. See this paper about Mississippian New Mexican corals. MISSISSIPPIAN CORALS FROM NEW MEXICO AND A RELATED PENNSYLVANIAN SPECIES By MISSISSIPPIAN CORALS FROM NEW MEXICO AND A RELATED PENNSYLVANIAN SPECIES By RUSSELL M. JEFFORDS https://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/bitstream/handle/1808/3791/paleo.article.016op.pdf?sequence=3&isAllowed=y That paper makes me want to go 'grrrr....' in frustration. I have it in my files and it was the first one I looked at. It's so old. It seems noone has been updating research on fauna&flora for NM unless a new species is found. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 Maybe the one on the right (or top depending on which pic you are looking at, the bigger one regardless) is a small version of Triplophyllites (Cliffordanus)? Length = 30mm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearLake Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 14 hours ago, Kato said: Maybe the one on the right (or top depending on which pic you are looking at, the bigger one regardless) is a small version of Triplophyllites (Cliffordanus)? Length = 30mm I wish I could help you here, but after doing some online research on both Lophophyllidium and Triplophyllites, I have now read more about Carboniferous corals from New Mexico and Arizona (or anywhere for that matter) than I have in decades! And I come away more uncertain than when I started (ignorance is bliss!!) Given the somewhat worn nature of your specimen and only a single one (at least pictured) and without doing the destructive work necessary to get at the internal features as suggested by @DPS Ammonite it may be difficult to ID too precisely. It certainly does seem like there is a need for a thorough assessment of the coral fauna of the region from the little bit I read. Oh, the sad life of the lowly coral!! Still, it is a very nice looking specimen and looks like an interesting outcrop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, ClearLake said: I wish I could help you here, but after doing some online research on both Lophophyllidium and Triplophyllites, I have now read more about Carboniferous corals from New Mexico and Arizona (or anywhere for that matter) than I have in decades! And I come away more uncertain than when I started (ignorance is bliss!!) Given the somewhat worn nature of your specimen and only a single one (at least pictured) and without doing the destructive work necessary to get at the internal features as suggested by @DPS Ammonite it may be difficult to ID too precisely. It certainly does seem like there is a need for a thorough assessment of the coral fauna of the region from the little bit I read. Oh, the sad life of the lowly coral!! Still, it is a very nice looking specimen and looks like an interesting outcrop. Thank you for your effort. I thought an answer might be more straightforward but I'm coming to realize that brachiopods, corals, etc are thoroughly under-recorded and studied so the best I can do is find approximations and move forward until better information comes along. I actually have held off submitting a request for fossil ID on some cephalods and gastropods I found in an even earlier Mississippian formation that does not have any listing for fauna except the fossil remnant, Zoophycos, which board members were able to help me successfully ID. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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