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Kato

General horn coral question - distinction between 2 types

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Kato

Hopefully this will be quick and easy for those who have the knowledge. I was meandering in the hills and came across some horn corals. I am used to calling the smaller one on the left a horn coral. I am presuming the one on the right also a horn coral. Would someone kindly provide sufficient naming to each so I can do some offline research and reading?

 

Apologies for fuzzy pic. Camera seemed to only want to focus on the backdrop material.

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ClearLake

Do you know the age?  I have a picture in my Ohio Fossils book of a Lophophyllidium profundum from the Pennsylvanian that looks similar to the one on the right.  And in Texas there are a couple of species of Lophophyllidium in the Pennsylvanian and Permian.  The grooved exterior is supposedly diagnostic.  But I am not a coral expert.

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Kato
9 minutes ago, DPS Ammonite said:

Horn corals are very difficult to ID from the exterior alone unless the area is well studied and the exterior of the coral is distinctive. Usually they are only identified only by structures visible in thin sections. See this paper about Mississippian New Mexican corals. 

 

MISSISSIPPIAN CORALS FROM NEW MEXICO AND A RELATED PENNSYLVANIAN SPECIES
By MISSISSIPPIAN CORALS FROM NEW MEXICO AND A RELATED PENNSYLVANIAN SPECIES


By RUSSELL M. JEFFORDS

 

https://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/bitstream/handle/1808/3791/paleo.article.016op.pdf?sequence=3&isAllowed=y

That paper makes me want to go 'grrrr....' in frustration. I have it in my files and it was the first one I looked at. It's so old. It seems noone has been updating research on fauna&flora for NM unless a new species is found.

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Kato

Maybe the one on the right (or top depending on which pic you are looking at, the bigger one regardless) is a small version of Triplophyllites (Cliffordanus)?  Length = 30mm

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ClearLake
14 hours ago, Kato said:

Maybe the one on the right (or top depending on which pic you are looking at, the bigger one regardless) is a small version of Triplophyllites (Cliffordanus)?  Length = 30mm

I wish I could help you here, but after  doing some online research on both Lophophyllidium and Triplophyllites, I have now read more about Carboniferous corals from New Mexico and Arizona (or anywhere for that matter) than I have in decades!  And I come away more uncertain than when I started (ignorance is bliss!!)  Given the somewhat worn nature of your specimen and only a single one (at least pictured) and without doing the destructive work necessary to get at the internal features as suggested by @DPS Ammonite it may be difficult to ID too precisely.  It certainly does seem like there is a need for a thorough assessment of the coral fauna of the region from the little bit I read.  Oh, the sad life of the lowly coral!! 

 

Still, it is a very nice looking specimen and looks like an interesting outcrop.

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Kato
9 minutes ago, ClearLake said:

I wish I could help you here, but after  doing some online research on both Lophophyllidium and Triplophyllites, I have now read more about Carboniferous corals from New Mexico and Arizona (or anywhere for that matter) than I have in decades!  And I come away more uncertain than when I started (ignorance is bliss!!)  Given the somewhat worn nature of your specimen and only a single one (at least pictured) and without doing the destructive work necessary to get at the internal features as suggested by @DPS Ammonite it may be difficult to ID too precisely.  It certainly does seem like there is a need for a thorough assessment of the coral fauna of the region from the little bit I read.  Oh, the sad life of the lowly coral!! 

 

Still, it is a very nice looking specimen and looks like an interesting outcrop.

Thank you for your effort. I thought an answer might be more straightforward but I'm coming to realize that brachiopods, corals, etc are thoroughly under-recorded and studied so the best I can do is find approximations and move forward until better information comes along.

 

I actually have held off submitting a request for fossil ID on some cephalods and gastropods I found in an even earlier Mississippian formation that does not have any listing for fauna except the fossil remnant, Zoophycos, which board members were able to help me successfully ID. 

 

Thanks again!

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